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Help[Opinions] Well . . .
in reply to a message by Kelseyyy
while you are right about Molly and Mary being forms of the same name, I do think it was a little rude for you to call the lady out on that. I mean, it would be one thing if she were pregnant and considering those names, but the twins are already born, so of course she was going to get defensive when you criticized her choice (even if her defense was faulty). I know a family with a Caroline and a Charles, but I didn't say "You know, those are just female and male variants of the same name" when Charlie was born. I think in the context of the "non-name nerd" world names like Molly and Mary and Caroline and Charles are fine. Most people wouldn't even know that they are related names. Sure, it makes us cringe, and I think it's fine that you shared with us the cringe-worthy twinset, but I just don't think it's our place to be calling people out in the names they have already given their children. :::Shrug:::
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agree
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Defeinitely agree
That's grounds for a catfight. There's being a name nerd, and then there is common decency and good manners. After all, I don't go up to people who have names I dislike and treat them to long rants about how much I hate their name.
That's grounds for a catfight. There's being a name nerd, and then there is common decency and good manners. After all, I don't go up to people who have names I dislike and treat them to long rants about how much I hate their name.
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I called my brother and sister-in-law out on it. They have one son named John and another named Shane. Drives...me...nuts! So I pointed out to them that John and Shane are the same name. Shane is a form of John. I wasn't rude in the way that I said it, I just matter of factly pointed it out. They treated it like a joke, saying that my brother was so egotistical that he likes the idea of having not one but two sons named after himself. (His name is John and their son John is a Jr.) That was a joke, they didn't actually know that Shane is a form of John.
I don't care, I would have done the same thing as the OP. It drives me nuts nuts nuts when people use two different forms of the same freaking name for their children. And if they don't know *they should know*. And shouldn't do it. And if they're going to be dumb enough to do it, then somebody ought to let them know how *dumb* they are. Without actually using the word dumb, of course.
I don't care, I would have done the same thing as the OP. It drives me nuts nuts nuts when people use two different forms of the same freaking name for their children. And if they don't know *they should know*. And shouldn't do it. And if they're going to be dumb enough to do it, then somebody ought to let them know how *dumb* they are. Without actually using the word dumb, of course.
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Agree
If I were not a name-nerd and were considering a name for my child I would want to look up its meaning, history, origin, etc. I get the feeling that most people don't actually do that. Although it isn't necessarily their fault-- I've seen so much incorrect information in baby name books these days.
I probably would have said something matter-of-factually too, but yes, try to say it without accusing them of being dumb. I don't know how good of a job I can do on that. :/
If I were not a name-nerd and were considering a name for my child I would want to look up its meaning, history, origin, etc. I get the feeling that most people don't actually do that. Although it isn't necessarily their fault-- I've seen so much incorrect information in baby name books these days.
I probably would have said something matter-of-factually too, but yes, try to say it without accusing them of being dumb. I don't know how good of a job I can do on that. :/
This message was edited 9/25/2009, 8:26 AM
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But my question is, what is your goal by telling them? Having them change their child's name? Or just feel stupid about something that most people wouldn't even notice? I know it comes off as "dumb" to us, but who are we to say what people ought to name their children? I think naming a daughter McShaylee is dumb, but I wouldn't say to a mother with a child by that name "You know, that is a made up name with no history or meaning." My only goal in telling the mother that would be to show my superior taste in and knowledge of names. "Just so you know . . ." corrections just come off as name snobbery to me. Not saying I am not guilty of name snobbery myself because I certainly am and would definitely be thinking "Molly and Mary? Those are the same name!" in my head, but the difference is that I wouldn't say anything because I wouldn't have a worthwhile goal in doing so.
Again, it would be different if the woman were pregnant and said "I am thinking about naming my twins Molly and Mary," to which I would reply "Oh, those are both lovely names, but one thing to consider in choosing is that Molly is a form of Mary so the twins might feel their names are too similar." But once a child is here and named, I don't feel like I have a say because the name has already been given and unless I want to convince the parents to change the name of the child (which I would only do if it were truly inappropriate a la Tallulah-does-the-Hula-in-Hawaii), there's absolutely no reason, except to point out the parents' stupidity, to bring it up.
You're right that many people do not research names before choosing them, but is there really anything inherently wrong with that other than is makes us crazy? Ought I have approached the parents of the twins named Patrick and Patricia that I once met and told them to consider renaming their children because the similarity was driving me crazy? We may think that we have some sort of authority on naming, but our knowledge of names does not mean we should have a say in what other people name their children.
Again, it would be different if the woman were pregnant and said "I am thinking about naming my twins Molly and Mary," to which I would reply "Oh, those are both lovely names, but one thing to consider in choosing is that Molly is a form of Mary so the twins might feel their names are too similar." But once a child is here and named, I don't feel like I have a say because the name has already been given and unless I want to convince the parents to change the name of the child (which I would only do if it were truly inappropriate a la Tallulah-does-the-Hula-in-Hawaii), there's absolutely no reason, except to point out the parents' stupidity, to bring it up.
You're right that many people do not research names before choosing them, but is there really anything inherently wrong with that other than is makes us crazy? Ought I have approached the parents of the twins named Patrick and Patricia that I once met and told them to consider renaming their children because the similarity was driving me crazy? We may think that we have some sort of authority on naming, but our knowledge of names does not mean we should have a say in what other people name their children.
This message was edited 9/25/2009, 9:05 AM
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it wouldn't be that hard, not to be snotty.
Unless you really do think your name knowledge makes you superior. It wouldn't be hard for most people who are just interested in the names, to conversationally say it like it's a point of interest, maybe to find out if they know or not. Because it is interesting. Until you say it, for all you know, they might've intended to give forms of the same name. "Oh yeah, Molly is the Scottish form of Mary, isn't it?" So what if it is? You can still say you like both names, and if you don't approve, mentioning it isn't the same as being critical. If you've prejudged that Such Things Should Never Be Done to Poor Innocent Children!!!, then you might not be able to make a friendly comment about the names ... but I think most people aren't that hysterical about it, at least when they're not on this board. If the parent gets defensive or feels bad, that's their problem, if they decide to worry that there is anything wrong with it.
Unless you really do think your name knowledge makes you superior. It wouldn't be hard for most people who are just interested in the names, to conversationally say it like it's a point of interest, maybe to find out if they know or not. Because it is interesting. Until you say it, for all you know, they might've intended to give forms of the same name. "Oh yeah, Molly is the Scottish form of Mary, isn't it?" So what if it is? You can still say you like both names, and if you don't approve, mentioning it isn't the same as being critical. If you've prejudged that Such Things Should Never Be Done to Poor Innocent Children!!!, then you might not be able to make a friendly comment about the names ... but I think most people aren't that hysterical about it, at least when they're not on this board. If the parent gets defensive or feels bad, that's their problem, if they decide to worry that there is anything wrong with it.
This message was edited 9/25/2009, 2:58 PM
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Yes, I suppose you're right, but when people on this board descry such naming pairs are "horrible" and "dumb" it's hard to imagine that they are telling the parents these facts just as a point of interest. Besides, if the paretns didn't know and you make them feel stupid, they might take offense and become defensive (as the woman in the OP did, stating that "Molly is Scottish and Mary is English"). :::Shrug::: I guess I just don't think that "just so you know" isn't a good enough reason to bring these things up, especially with strangers (I think it's a little different in queenv's case when she mentioned her to brother that Shane and John are forms of the same name)
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thumbs up also!
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Oh, I don't think that I should have a SAY. I didn't have any say in naming my brother's children, and I didn't think I should have had one.
They just needed to know that they were being stupid, even though I didn't use the word stupid. And everyone else needs to know it, also.
My goal in telling them, and would be in telling anyone else, would be to impart knowledge.
They just needed to know that they were being stupid, even though I didn't use the word stupid. And everyone else needs to know it, also.
My goal in telling them, and would be in telling anyone else, would be to impart knowledge.
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To clarify
I didn't say to my brother and sister-in-law, and wouldn't say to anybody else, that it's stupid, that it drives me nuts, that they should know better, or anything else like that. I just stated a fact. That's all that I would do. Politely. If the person didn't know beforehand, he or she now knows. If they did know and didn't care, and inferred from what I said that it's dumb or annoying to me, that's fine with me. But it would be mainly to impart knowledge.
I didn't say to my brother and sister-in-law, and wouldn't say to anybody else, that it's stupid, that it drives me nuts, that they should know better, or anything else like that. I just stated a fact. That's all that I would do. Politely. If the person didn't know beforehand, he or she now knows. If they did know and didn't care, and inferred from what I said that it's dumb or annoying to me, that's fine with me. But it would be mainly to impart knowledge.
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Thumbs up!
I find it very strange to get annoyed about things like this. Let other people be!
I find it very strange to get annoyed about things like this. Let other people be!
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The other thing that really annoys me is picky eaters.
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Too bad for you, right? :P
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Sometimes.
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Hmm
I suppose it's just one of those social things I don't understand. When you put it that way I guess it doesn't make sense to say anything to someone.
I suppose it's just one of those social things I don't understand. When you put it that way I guess it doesn't make sense to say anything to someone.
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I cannot agree more with this!!
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I agree. I wouldn't say anything about the name of someone's child because I don't think it's any of my business. And if someone criticised my child's name in any way I'd be pretty annoyed.
My mum's cousins are Charlotte and Caroline. I don't know if their parents were aware that they come from the same source or not but it doesn't bother me at all. I recently saw a family in the paper with children called Charles and Charlotte. Presumably the parents are aware of the similarities (as they look so similar) but maybe had significant reasons for choosing them.
ETA: I wouldn't ask the names of a stranger's children anyway. It seems a bit odd to me.
My mum's cousins are Charlotte and Caroline. I don't know if their parents were aware that they come from the same source or not but it doesn't bother me at all. I recently saw a family in the paper with children called Charles and Charlotte. Presumably the parents are aware of the similarities (as they look so similar) but maybe had significant reasons for choosing them.
ETA: I wouldn't ask the names of a stranger's children anyway. It seems a bit odd to me.
This message was edited 9/25/2009, 9:38 AM
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I agree
These things only matter to name-nerds. I don't even really mind too much. I mean, who really uses Molly as a nickname for Mary anymore? And for middle names, who cares? I think it would be cool to have a middle name that is connected to a sibling's.
Caroline and Charles were the names of Laura Ingalls parents by the way, author of the autobiographical Little House on the Prairie. I think they're a great sibset and I never would have made the connection that they're related.
These things only matter to name-nerds. I don't even really mind too much. I mean, who really uses Molly as a nickname for Mary anymore? And for middle names, who cares? I think it would be cool to have a middle name that is connected to a sibling's.
Caroline and Charles were the names of Laura Ingalls parents by the way, author of the autobiographical Little House on the Prairie. I think they're a great sibset and I never would have made the connection that they're related.
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Particularly strangers in a store! I would have been like, excuse me, and who are you?!
(Even if I internally completely agree with your reaction, it just should have stayed internal.)
(Even if I internally completely agree with your reaction, it just should have stayed internal.)
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