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ArchivesMaybe KARL is not a "man"
What is the real etymology of the name? This site has one derivation, quite commonly given on the web and in books: Old High German "karl, char(e/i)l" (man, free man). But it looks like since the late 1960s another explanation is more and more accepted (this is taken from a very reliable book: Das große Vornamen-Lexikon, Duden; W.Seibicke: HDV has the same): pet form of a name beginning with the Old High German element "heri" (army) + the Romanic ending "-olus", used in the area whe West Frankish and Romanic influences mingled. The Germanic H would be represented by a C in Romanic spelling, this is where the C or K came in.
W. Seibicke quotes Henning Kaufmann (1965: Untersuchungen zu altdeutschen Rufnamen. München (= Grundfragen der Namenkunde 3)):
Kaufmann "geht aus von einer Kosef. Háriolus zu german. *Charja-/Harja-, indoeurop. ‘korios ‘Heer’ (vgl. HER) aus, die sich zu lat. Carolus entwickelte"
Translation: Kaufmann assumes a pet form Háriolus (Germanic *Charja-/Harja-, Indoeurop. "korios" = "Army" (same as HER in HERbert), that developed to Latin Carolus. (Germanic H was often transscribed into C in Latin)
Does anyone know more about this theory?
Andy ;—)
W. Seibicke quotes Henning Kaufmann (1965: Untersuchungen zu altdeutschen Rufnamen. München (= Grundfragen der Namenkunde 3)):
Kaufmann "geht aus von einer Kosef. Háriolus zu german. *Charja-/Harja-, indoeurop. ‘korios ‘Heer’ (vgl. HER) aus, die sich zu lat. Carolus entwickelte"
Translation: Kaufmann assumes a pet form Háriolus (Germanic *Charja-/Harja-, Indoeurop. "korios" = "Army" (same as HER in HERbert), that developed to Latin Carolus. (Germanic H was often transscribed into C in Latin)
Does anyone know more about this theory?
Andy ;—)
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Replies
Hi Andy,
The first I heard of this theory was from you in your previous post. It sounds plausible - the karl "man" element seems odd, and is not used in any other Germanic names. On the other hand the heri "army" element is common in Germanic dithematic names and there certainly could have been short froms created for it (a la Waldo, Hamo, Odo).
Of course this theory needs to be backed up by some philological evidence.
Thanks Andy, very interesting.
Mike
The first I heard of this theory was from you in your previous post. It sounds plausible - the karl "man" element seems odd, and is not used in any other Germanic names. On the other hand the heri "army" element is common in Germanic dithematic names and there certainly could have been short froms created for it (a la Waldo, Hamo, Odo).
Of course this theory needs to be backed up by some philological evidence.
Thanks Andy, very interesting.
Mike
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Hi, Mike,
I'll try to get hold of the article Seibicke quotes. There must be something to it, as even the Duden "Das große Vornamen-Lexikon" (formerly "Lexikon der Vornamen" and one of the most reliable name books in Germany) changed this entry in its last edition. I'll keep you posted on this.
Well, my last post was not well placed so I decided to put it on the board again. Thanks for answering.
Andy ;—)
I'll try to get hold of the article Seibicke quotes. There must be something to it, as even the Duden "Das große Vornamen-Lexikon" (formerly "Lexikon der Vornamen" and one of the most reliable name books in Germany) changed this entry in its last edition. I'll keep you posted on this.
Well, my last post was not well placed so I decided to put it on the board again. Thanks for answering.
Andy ;—)
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