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Someone posted here a week or so ago (the poster's name was "Maria Ascela") about the name Ascela.
I chased it around the net and all I found were:
Ascella - a star in the constellation Orion (unlikely to be related), and
Ascelin(e) - a surname / first name (used for either sex) deriving ultimately from Germanic Adal ("noble") - see my post if you care, http://www.behindthename.com/bb/arcview.php?id=60567&board=gen
The lists of surnames I encountered while looking for Ascelin contained all sorts of names that looked like they could be intermediate between Ascelin and Ashlyn. Not that I doubt the etymology of Ashlyn as given here or as phonetic of Aisling, but..
Does anyone have any more info on the name Ascelin and its forms - usage or pronunciation in particular? I'm wondering if it could have been used concurrently in the same fashion with Ashlyn/Aisling at some point, and perhaps confused with it by some.
Along the same lines, anyone know how far back the usage of Ashlyn itself goes, as opposed to Aisling?
- chazda
[Edited to add that I'd found the earlier post I'd made]
I chased it around the net and all I found were:
Ascella - a star in the constellation Orion (unlikely to be related), and
Ascelin(e) - a surname / first name (used for either sex) deriving ultimately from Germanic Adal ("noble") - see my post if you care, http://www.behindthename.com/bb/arcview.php?id=60567&board=gen
The lists of surnames I encountered while looking for Ascelin contained all sorts of names that looked like they could be intermediate between Ascelin and Ashlyn. Not that I doubt the etymology of Ashlyn as given here or as phonetic of Aisling, but..
Does anyone have any more info on the name Ascelin and its forms - usage or pronunciation in particular? I'm wondering if it could have been used concurrently in the same fashion with Ashlyn/Aisling at some point, and perhaps confused with it by some.
Along the same lines, anyone know how far back the usage of Ashlyn itself goes, as opposed to Aisling?
- chazda
[Edited to add that I'd found the earlier post I'd made]
This message was edited 9/9/2004, 10:59 PM
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Replies
this will lead to more confusion sorry
i saw the name Ascelin and thought it looked like Asselink (a Dutch surname). Asselink has the same origin as Esselink, which is like Hesselink, which is like Hessels and Hessels means 'son of Hessel'.
i'm sorry but this isnt all:
Hessel is a Dutch male name, with variants like Hasse and Hesling (notable!, looks like Aisling). It's meaning is unclear, but there are six possibilities given:
1) from the Germanic hasan which means 'beautiful' or 'smooth'
2) it's taken from the Hessian people, living in Germany
3) nickname of names beginning with hart- like Hartmann
4) nickname of names beginning with hade like Hedwig
5) nickname of names beginning with her- like Herman
6) nickname of Hendrik (Hezelo is a nn of Heinrich)
...time to rest now...
let's go on:
personally i think the derivation from the germanic adal is not true. this above makes more sense, because it all knits the web together (Hesling and Aisling; Ashlyn being derived from Aisling, as BtN says; Ascelin, Asselink and Ashlyn all like each other)
It seems pretty clear that Asselink and Ashlyn are from the same origin. so i think it's safe to say that the same is applied for Ascelin.
i saw the name Ascelin and thought it looked like Asselink (a Dutch surname). Asselink has the same origin as Esselink, which is like Hesselink, which is like Hessels and Hessels means 'son of Hessel'.
i'm sorry but this isnt all:
Hessel is a Dutch male name, with variants like Hasse and Hesling (notable!, looks like Aisling). It's meaning is unclear, but there are six possibilities given:
1) from the Germanic hasan which means 'beautiful' or 'smooth'
2) it's taken from the Hessian people, living in Germany
3) nickname of names beginning with hart- like Hartmann
4) nickname of names beginning with hade like Hedwig
5) nickname of names beginning with her- like Herman
6) nickname of Hendrik (Hezelo is a nn of Heinrich)
...time to rest now...
let's go on:
personally i think the derivation from the germanic adal is not true. this above makes more sense, because it all knits the web together (Hesling and Aisling; Ashlyn being derived from Aisling, as BtN says; Ascelin, Asselink and Ashlyn all like each other)
It seems pretty clear that Asselink and Ashlyn are from the same origin. so i think it's safe to say that the same is applied for Ascelin.
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i think we're both wrong :( because...(m)
a) it's doubtful if Ashlyn is a variant on Aisling; although i have to admit: Ashlyn, Ashling, Aisling? BtN says different though.
b) i've been on a research and i still am at the moment of writing (lol):
i've found the masculine name Ascel and i think this is the stam from which the feminine name Ascela has been derived. but now more about Ascel and Ascelin:
i tried some variants of both:
Aschel: found it as a variant of the German/Swiss surname Ascher (like Escher) and as a variant on the surname Eschen.
Ashel: this is a Hebrew first name with the meaning 'made of god' (i think though that Ascel is of Western-Europian origin)
Aschelin and Askelin: used as surname in for example Sweden, but all sorts of other countries.
Eschelin: this is interesting, now here we achieve something:
this is a site about early medieval given names in the Low Lands (it's very slow loading, mind you): www.keesn.nl/names/list_m.htm
On the site the following names are from the same origin:
Ascelin (!), Escelin, Anselinus, Azelinus and Aezzelin. The etymological components of which those exist are asc and lin .
i will look further, but till now i have found this:
About Azelinus:
Hermann von Reichenau said about Hartwig, bishop of Bamberg in Latin (after Hartwigs dead): "Hazelinus etiam, Babinbergensis episcopus infamis, moriem locun dedit"
with the two years latin i've had i can understand that Babinbergensis refers to Bamberg and that Hazelinus etiam means 'i was Hazelin(us)'. this is interesting as Hazelinus is no doubt a variant of Azelinus (or the other way round) and it refers here to Hartwig. And the site of the Meertens Instituut stated that Hessel could possibly be a flattering name aka nickname of a name beginning with hart- , just like here HAZELinus refers to HARTwig!! seems like another connection
a) it's doubtful if Ashlyn is a variant on Aisling; although i have to admit: Ashlyn, Ashling, Aisling? BtN says different though.
b) i've been on a research and i still am at the moment of writing (lol):
i've found the masculine name Ascel and i think this is the stam from which the feminine name Ascela has been derived. but now more about Ascel and Ascelin:
i tried some variants of both:
Aschel: found it as a variant of the German/Swiss surname Ascher (like Escher) and as a variant on the surname Eschen.
Ashel: this is a Hebrew first name with the meaning 'made of god' (i think though that Ascel is of Western-Europian origin)
Aschelin and Askelin: used as surname in for example Sweden, but all sorts of other countries.
Eschelin: this is interesting, now here we achieve something:
this is a site about early medieval given names in the Low Lands (it's very slow loading, mind you): www.keesn.nl/names/list_m.htm
On the site the following names are from the same origin:
Ascelin (!), Escelin, Anselinus, Azelinus and Aezzelin. The etymological components of which those exist are asc and lin .
i will look further, but till now i have found this:
About Azelinus:
Hermann von Reichenau said about Hartwig, bishop of Bamberg in Latin (after Hartwigs dead): "Hazelinus etiam, Babinbergensis episcopus infamis, moriem locun dedit"
with the two years latin i've had i can understand that Babinbergensis refers to Bamberg and that Hazelinus etiam means 'i was Hazelin(us)'. this is interesting as Hazelinus is no doubt a variant of Azelinus (or the other way round) and it refers here to Hartwig. And the site of the Meertens Instituut stated that Hessel could possibly be a flattering name aka nickname of a name beginning with hart- , just like here HAZELinus refers to HARTwig!! seems like another connection
This message was edited 9/10/2004, 6:55 AM
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about lin:...(m)
Lynn from Ashlyn has most likely the same origin as the component lin , which is believed to be from the Germanic word linde meaning 'soft, tender' according to BtN, but according to the Meertens Instituut there are three possible meanings:
1) 'snake' (symbolic meaning is 'knower of secrets')
e.g. Latin lentus means 'supple, pliant' (which snakes are) and Old High German lint (snake) and Old Norwegian linnr (snake)
2) referring to weapons made of lime-wood
e.g other English word for lime is linden and Old Teutonic linda and the Dutch words linde and lende and Old High German linta
3) 'soft, tender'
e.g. Old High German lindi and English lithe ('supple, pliant') and Spanish lindo ('nice, proper')
Lynn from Ashlyn has most likely the same origin as the component lin , which is believed to be from the Germanic word linde meaning 'soft, tender' according to BtN, but according to the Meertens Instituut there are three possible meanings:
1) 'snake' (symbolic meaning is 'knower of secrets')
e.g. Latin lentus means 'supple, pliant' (which snakes are) and Old High German lint (snake) and Old Norwegian linnr (snake)
2) referring to weapons made of lime-wood
e.g other English word for lime is linden and Old Teutonic linda and the Dutch words linde and lende and Old High German linta
3) 'soft, tender'
e.g. Old High German lindi and English lithe ('supple, pliant') and Spanish lindo ('nice, proper')
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even more...(m)
http://home.nextra.sk/hazlin/Historia/historia.htm
above is a site in Slovakian (can't read it either) about a Slovakian village called Hazlin (!). The interesting part is that on the site bottom there are listed how the city was referred to in history. It was first mentioned in 1415 as Heuslingh and later one as Esleng, Hazlyngh, Haslin and finally Hazlin. it all looks very much like Hesling and Hazelinus. another connection i guess. i hope anyone can help me translate the site to see if it contains more useful information (like how it got its name or alike)
http://home.nextra.sk/hazlin/Historia/historia.htm
above is a site in Slovakian (can't read it either) about a Slovakian village called Hazlin (!). The interesting part is that on the site bottom there are listed how the city was referred to in history. It was first mentioned in 1415 as Heuslingh and later one as Esleng, Hazlyngh, Haslin and finally Hazlin. it all looks very much like Hesling and Hazelinus. another connection i guess. i hope anyone can help me translate the site to see if it contains more useful information (like how it got its name or alike)
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i have asked a native speaker of the Slovak language at AllExperts.com to translate the website for me (which is free).
Within no longer than two days the translation will be ready (according to the site it could be ready today :-) )
Within no longer than two days the translation will be ready (according to the site it could be ready today :-) )
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no connection...(m)
i've found out that Ashlyn and Ascelin have a connection (share the same origin), but there's no connection between them and Hessel. Hazelinus is indeed a derivation of Hessel, but has nothing to do with Azelinus. i've found Asselin in the database of firstnames of the Meertens Instituut and this name is related to Ashlyn and Ascelin (the site doesn't say that but the name Asselin is composed of ask and lin , like Ascelin and Ashlyn. well, that was it.
i've found out that Ashlyn and Ascelin have a connection (share the same origin), but there's no connection between them and Hessel. Hazelinus is indeed a derivation of Hessel, but has nothing to do with Azelinus. i've found Asselin in the database of firstnames of the Meertens Instituut and this name is related to Ashlyn and Ascelin (the site doesn't say that but the name Asselin is composed of ask and lin , like Ascelin and Ashlyn. well, that was it.
1
You are right, Menke, about the three possible meanings of "-lind". But etymologically they are all one:
The tree (German "Linde" is so called, because its wood is flexible and thus very useful for making bows.
The same applies to the snake (as in German "Lindwurm" = dragon), not the part about bows, but its ability to bend.
This is at least what my etymological dictionaries say (Kluge and dtv).
I don't know about the name Ashlyn(n), but I guess, the ending -lin can also be a deminutive.
Keep going, Menke, you are a thorough worker and make good contributions to the board, as far as I can judge.
Andy ;—)
The tree (German "Linde" is so called, because its wood is flexible and thus very useful for making bows.
The same applies to the snake (as in German "Lindwurm" = dragon), not the part about bows, but its ability to bend.
This is at least what my etymological dictionaries say (Kluge and dtv).
I don't know about the name Ashlyn(n), but I guess, the ending -lin can also be a deminutive.
Keep going, Menke, you are a thorough worker and make good contributions to the board, as far as I can judge.
Andy ;—)
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website latin quote (i forgot)
http://www.mittelalter-genealogie.de/mittelalter/bistuemer/bamberg/hartwig_bischof_von_bamberg_+_1053.html
this is the site i have the latin quote from.
http://www.mittelalter-genealogie.de/mittelalter/bistuemer/bamberg/hartwig_bischof_von_bamberg_+_1053.html
this is the site i have the latin quote from.
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this is a better translation of the quote:
Hazelinus etiam, Babinbergensis episcopus infamis, moriem locun dedit.
Hazelinus etiam = 'Hazelinus also' or 'Even Hazelinus'
Babenbergensis episcolus infamis = infamous bisshop of Babenberg (Bamberg nowadays)
moriem locun dedit = something like 'surrenders to the deathly place'
I don't know the latter one exactly, but the meaning is clear: "and another one passed away" (when someone says that about your death, he is obviously not meant to be friendly).
Hazelinus etiam, Babinbergensis episcopus infamis, moriem locun dedit.
Hazelinus etiam = 'Hazelinus also' or 'Even Hazelinus'
Babenbergensis episcolus infamis = infamous bisshop of Babenberg (Bamberg nowadays)
moriem locun dedit = something like 'surrenders to the deathly place'
I don't know the latter one exactly, but the meaning is clear: "and another one passed away" (when someone says that about your death, he is obviously not meant to be friendly).
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i've send these both posts to the Meertens Instituut
to ask their opinion about the whole thing :-)
we might get the proper answer now
to ask their opinion about the whole thing :-)
we might get the proper answer now
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