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ArchivesWhy am I not surprised that the Name Police are backed by religion?
in reply to a message by Anneza
From the article: "Malaysia's National Registration Department made the decision after consulting with various religious bodies in the country."
If I had a kid and wanted to name her "Magenta" or "Cinnamon" it's nobody else's goddamn business -- and DEFINITELY not the business of the goddamn government.
-- Nanaea, Libertarian and Satan Herself
*waves to Pavlos*
If I had a kid and wanted to name her "Magenta" or "Cinnamon" it's nobody else's goddamn business -- and DEFINITELY not the business of the goddamn government.
-- Nanaea, Libertarian and Satan Herself
*waves to Pavlos*
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Replies
I agree with you
though somehow I doubt you are Satan Herself *LOL* ;-)
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
though somehow I doubt you are Satan Herself *LOL* ;-)
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
2
She is she is (he said knowingly) ;)
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*LOL* I'll have to take your word for it
as you would know better than I. :-)
OT: Were your ears burning last night? I was entertaining my friend Eden (BtN user eden_eli) with the tale of the time we "nearly spontaneously combusted," as you've described it. She was most entertained by that story. It still makes me laugh, you cheeky Greek. She said you seem quite charming. See, people are noticing your visits to the Lounge! Told you so! :-)
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
as you would know better than I. :-)
OT: Were your ears burning last night? I was entertaining my friend Eden (BtN user eden_eli) with the tale of the time we "nearly spontaneously combusted," as you've described it. She was most entertained by that story. It still makes me laugh, you cheeky Greek. She said you seem quite charming. See, people are noticing your visits to the Lounge! Told you so! :-)
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
1
Burnin' the midnight oil?
Goes both ways: Great folks like yourself certainly make this board worth visiting and much more than an academic wasteland - the fantastic quirky exchange between Nan and Mar is a great sample of how things used to be around here a few years ago :)
I enjoy posting at the lounge on occasion, but in small doses so as not to absorb too much pre-pubescence. I would hate to start developing titties at my age, if you know what I mean.
Goes both ways: Great folks like yourself certainly make this board worth visiting and much more than an academic wasteland - the fantastic quirky exchange between Nan and Mar is a great sample of how things used to be around here a few years ago :)
I enjoy posting at the lounge on occasion, but in small doses so as not to absorb too much pre-pubescence. I would hate to start developing titties at my age, if you know what I mean.
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*LOL*
Your wife probably would not approve either.
I only got to burn an hour's worth last night. I worked my usual 12hr shifts Fri-Sat-Sun nights, slept all day Monday, got up for dinner, then David wanted me to go back to bed with him, of course. I wasn't tired anymore, natch. I waited for the serious snoring then crept out to pursue my own interests for a bit. But he got up for some reason (noticed I was gone, most likely), and caught me! Back to bed it was...
Many heartfelt congratulations on the arrival of Constantine Julian, btw! I love the name, Constantine is on my faves list. This makes three, does it not? Two boys and a girl, if I am not mistaken? Now your daughter needs a sister in a year or two, eh? I'm a believer in a balanced family; I wanted my son to have a brother, and my daughter a sister. I've warned David that one more for us would obligate us to have another after that. He's not going for it, he seems to think six is too many! :-)
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
Your wife probably would not approve either.
I only got to burn an hour's worth last night. I worked my usual 12hr shifts Fri-Sat-Sun nights, slept all day Monday, got up for dinner, then David wanted me to go back to bed with him, of course. I wasn't tired anymore, natch. I waited for the serious snoring then crept out to pursue my own interests for a bit. But he got up for some reason (noticed I was gone, most likely), and caught me! Back to bed it was...
Many heartfelt congratulations on the arrival of Constantine Julian, btw! I love the name, Constantine is on my faves list. This makes three, does it not? Two boys and a girl, if I am not mistaken? Now your daughter needs a sister in a year or two, eh? I'm a believer in a balanced family; I wanted my son to have a brother, and my daughter a sister. I've warned David that one more for us would obligate us to have another after that. He's not going for it, he seems to think six is too many! :-)
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
1
Four, if we count Hector the beagle and Phrixus the Parrot :)
Actually two: Nephele, who is 6 years old, and Constantine Julian who is five months old...perfect balance, my procreating days are now over ;)
Actually two: Nephele, who is 6 years old, and Constantine Julian who is five months old...perfect balance, my procreating days are now over ;)
This message was edited 8/1/2006, 6:34 AM
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My bad
I must have subconsciously made note of Constantine already, perhaps you've mentioned him but not his name? In any case, cheers to all!
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
I must have subconsciously made note of Constantine already, perhaps you've mentioned him but not his name? In any case, cheers to all!
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
1
Hails to y'all from Satan Herself
Okay, Pavlos, I think the mental image of you developing titties has seriously scarred me. :)
Damn, I miss the good ol' days. Mar here is okay, but do you remember the great Elaine War of 2001? It was you (a.k.a. "PriaposLovs"), me, Daivdh, and Phyllis. Does the message board still get lunatics like Elaine?
Hey, win any more Anagrammy Awards lately? And I hear Mike's now married!
-- Nanaea
Okay, Pavlos, I think the mental image of you developing titties has seriously scarred me. :)
Damn, I miss the good ol' days. Mar here is okay, but do you remember the great Elaine War of 2001? It was you (a.k.a. "PriaposLovs"), me, Daivdh, and Phyllis. Does the message board still get lunatics like Elaine?
Hey, win any more Anagrammy Awards lately? And I hear Mike's now married!
-- Nanaea
This message was edited 8/1/2006, 5:29 AM
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Hi Nanaea,
I don't know you (yet, and except by reputation lol) but if you'd been around you would've enjoyed Constantin the "Albanish" poster. Search him ;-D
♦ Chrisell ♦
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - J.R.R. Tolkien.
I don't know you (yet, and except by reputation lol) but if you'd been around you would've enjoyed Constantin the "Albanish" poster. Search him ;-D
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - J.R.R. Tolkien.
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Albanishment!
Oooo, I would've luuuurved to have met Constantin the "Albanish" (wtf is "Albanish"? Hahahaha!) poster!
But it's far cooler meeting you, Chrisell.
-- Nanaea
Oooo, I would've luuuurved to have met Constantin the "Albanish" (wtf is "Albanish"? Hahahaha!) poster!
But it's far cooler meeting you, Chrisell.
-- Nanaea
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:-)
♦ Chrisell ♦
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - J.R.R. Tolkien.
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - J.R.R. Tolkien.
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Yep, how could I have forgotten about him !
He visited the forum several times under different handles and insisted that practically everything including sliced bread was invented by the "Albanish" (sic), and provided crackpot explanations. The beauty of it is that he never realized that we were all laughing at his expense -- and to this day believes we represent some sinister anti-"albanish" conspiracy ;)
He visited the forum several times under different handles and insisted that practically everything including sliced bread was invented by the "Albanish" (sic), and provided crackpot explanations. The beauty of it is that he never realized that we were all laughing at his expense -- and to this day believes we represent some sinister anti-"albanish" conspiracy ;)
This message was edited 8/1/2006, 6:53 AM
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Albanishness!
Never has the Albanish language been so fun :D
And Nanaea, its great to see you again. Yep, you probably have no clue who I am, but in days of yore when I was scared little poster that rarely posted, I would read your witty posts and stand in awe. Damn, I'm getting the jitters talking about it.
Never has the Albanish language been so fun :D
And Nanaea, its great to see you again. Yep, you probably have no clue who I am, but in days of yore when I was scared little poster that rarely posted, I would read your witty posts and stand in awe. Damn, I'm getting the jitters talking about it.
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Ah yes, the "What's Elaine's Problem" quiz remains one of the funniest thing you (or anyone else) has ever published on the net. Remember Eaglebeak ? That absolutely demented character out on a quixotic crusade to defend the postumous honour of his ghastly, unsightly eyesore of a Russian Emperess? He was a true "old school" lunatic gentleman along the lines of Erich von Stroheim in the Grand Illusion. They dont make them like that anymore!
Not many loonies visit BtN, and those who do are of the teenybopping variety at the Lounge -- they are humorlessly swatted upon by the moderators on sight:(
As far as the old gang is concerned, I have no news whatsoever from Davidh. Sarahjeanne is getting married pretty soon to some luckybastard, and Phyllis is the remaining Kabbal-ero to still occasionally post, but at the Lounge.
I havent given up on anagrams, here are some recent samples:
An equal opportunities employer = I put some inept queer on a payroll
The Twentieth Winter Olympic Games = We compete in thermal tights, yet win
Heel claims ~ me, Achilles
Since we last spoke, I have a new son (5 mo), Constantine Julian (Constantine was my dad's name, but also happened to be a horrible Byzantine Emperor, so I also insisted on Julian, who was my favorite one) and a Beagle, Hector.
Whassup with you? What dark virtual venues have you been terrorizing lately? How is Pwcca (sp?) the MinPin?
Not many loonies visit BtN, and those who do are of the teenybopping variety at the Lounge -- they are humorlessly swatted upon by the moderators on sight:(
As far as the old gang is concerned, I have no news whatsoever from Davidh. Sarahjeanne is getting married pretty soon to some luckybastard, and Phyllis is the remaining Kabbal-ero to still occasionally post, but at the Lounge.
I havent given up on anagrams, here are some recent samples:
An equal opportunities employer = I put some inept queer on a payroll
The Twentieth Winter Olympic Games = We compete in thermal tights, yet win
Heel claims ~ me, Achilles
Since we last spoke, I have a new son (5 mo), Constantine Julian (Constantine was my dad's name, but also happened to be a horrible Byzantine Emperor, so I also insisted on Julian, who was my favorite one) and a Beagle, Hector.
Whassup with you? What dark virtual venues have you been terrorizing lately? How is Pwcca (sp?) the MinPin?
This message was edited 8/1/2006, 6:11 AM
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Catching up
Trust you, Bro' to dig up those old posts. What a fun trip down Memory Lane. :)
"Not many loonies visit BtN, and those who do are of the teenybopping variety at the Lounge -- they are humorlessly swatted upon by the moderators on sight:("
BTN has moderators now? I remember back when Mike was doing it all on his own (and probably wearing himself to a frazzle, too).
"As far as the old gang is concerned, I have no news whatsoever from Davidh. Sarahjeanne is getting married pretty soon to some luckybastard, and Phyllis is the remaining Kabbal-ero to still occasionally post, but at the Lounge."
Maybe Daividh will pop in again sometime. It'd be nice to run into him. Sarahjeanne is getting married??? I remember when her great love was the Cardinals baseball team! Phyllis is still around? I'd love to "see" her again. Her vampire "Sylphia Life" is still in existence over in Ravenblack City (if she remembers that).
"I havent given up on anagrams, here are some recent samples:"
BRILLIANT! You are, and always will be, the Anagrammaster!
"Since we last spoke, I have a new son (5 mo), Constantine Julian (Constantine was my dad's name, but also happened to be a horrible Byzantine Emperor, so I also insisted on Julian, who was my favorite one) and a Beagle, Hector."
I knew about C.J. -- you'd e-mailed me awhile back when he was born. Did you get my return e-mail to you?
"Whassup with you? What dark virtual venues have you been terrorizing lately? How is Pwcca (sp?) the MinPin?"
I've got a little pack of minpins now. Pwcca had moved on to a new family, though, but the ones I've got now are all permanent residents and I'm no longer doing the rescue thing.
-- Nanaea
Trust you, Bro' to dig up those old posts. What a fun trip down Memory Lane. :)
"Not many loonies visit BtN, and those who do are of the teenybopping variety at the Lounge -- they are humorlessly swatted upon by the moderators on sight:("
BTN has moderators now? I remember back when Mike was doing it all on his own (and probably wearing himself to a frazzle, too).
"As far as the old gang is concerned, I have no news whatsoever from Davidh. Sarahjeanne is getting married pretty soon to some luckybastard, and Phyllis is the remaining Kabbal-ero to still occasionally post, but at the Lounge."
Maybe Daividh will pop in again sometime. It'd be nice to run into him. Sarahjeanne is getting married??? I remember when her great love was the Cardinals baseball team! Phyllis is still around? I'd love to "see" her again. Her vampire "Sylphia Life" is still in existence over in Ravenblack City (if she remembers that).
"I havent given up on anagrams, here are some recent samples:"
BRILLIANT! You are, and always will be, the Anagrammaster!
"Since we last spoke, I have a new son (5 mo), Constantine Julian (Constantine was my dad's name, but also happened to be a horrible Byzantine Emperor, so I also insisted on Julian, who was my favorite one) and a Beagle, Hector."
I knew about C.J. -- you'd e-mailed me awhile back when he was born. Did you get my return e-mail to you?
"Whassup with you? What dark virtual venues have you been terrorizing lately? How is Pwcca (sp?) the MinPin?"
I've got a little pack of minpins now. Pwcca had moved on to a new family, though, but the ones I've got now are all permanent residents and I'm no longer doing the rescue thing.
-- Nanaea
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> I knew about C.J. -- you'd e-mailed me awhile back when he was born. Did you get my return e-mail to you?
Alzheimer's disease = I slid, haze erases me...
Alzheimer's disease = I slid, haze erases me...
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PS a waltz down memory lane
The all time classic thread that gave birth to Let's take the "WHAT IS ELAINE'S PROBLEM?" Quiz!" : http://www.behindthename.com/bb/arcview.php?id=4067&board=gen
The Eagle beak rant: http://www.behindthename.com/bb/arcview.php?id=3769&board=gen
The all time classic thread that gave birth to Let's take the "WHAT IS ELAINE'S PROBLEM?" Quiz!" : http://www.behindthename.com/bb/arcview.php?id=4067&board=gen
The Eagle beak rant: http://www.behindthename.com/bb/arcview.php?id=3769&board=gen
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I'm a little late, but...
Oh, that was a great post by Daividh about the paragraph police being punctual. I would *love* to use that on some people now... heh
And wow, I think if I tried to post a game like that, I would be run off the boards right now. Classic.
What are the convulsions of a city in comparison with the insurrections of the soul?
Man is a depth still greater than the people.
Oh, that was a great post by Daividh about the paragraph police being punctual. I would *love* to use that on some people now... heh
And wow, I think if I tried to post a game like that, I would be run off the boards right now. Classic.
Man is a depth still greater than the people.
This message was edited 8/2/2006, 11:05 AM
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*Laughing uncontrollably*
This is such hilarious stuff! Kudos to all of the 'notable idiots' for giving me a reason to laugh besides a funny number plate I saw today! Well done to you, Pavlos, the artist formerly known as PriaposLovs, for bringing these up! I just wish I had been here ever since the board began...
This is such hilarious stuff! Kudos to all of the 'notable idiots' for giving me a reason to laugh besides a funny number plate I saw today! Well done to you, Pavlos, the artist formerly known as PriaposLovs, for bringing these up! I just wish I had been here ever since the board began...
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...I cannot stifle the laughter.
Oh, boy, I wish I was here earlier. Were there any other notable idiots?
Oh, boy, I wish I was here earlier. Were there any other notable idiots?
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Took me a while to read these
but holy cow! She was a piece of work, wasn't she? And boy howdy did you and Nanaea rip her! The quiz was sheer genius! Thanks so much for bringing this out of the vault, you've made my day. :-D
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
but holy cow! She was a piece of work, wasn't she? And boy howdy did you and Nanaea rip her! The quiz was sheer genius! Thanks so much for bringing this out of the vault, you've made my day. :-D
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
1
Pavlos and I were the "bad kids" of the board. Hahahahaha! Anagramming makes you eeeeeevil. Nah, just kidding. Maybe. ;)
Cool to meet you, Lillian.
-- Nanaea
Cool to meet you, Lillian.
-- Nanaea
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Completely agree.
Why the heck should they care what my name is?
Why the heck should they care what my name is?
This message was edited 7/31/2006, 7:08 AM
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States have no more moral claim on our livelihoods than Don Coleone does...
...*waves* back at his sorely missed hell-raisin' sista ;)
...*waves* back at his sorely missed hell-raisin' sista ;)
This message was edited 7/31/2006, 6:38 AM
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Well it depends on what you focus on in the article:
The list came as a response to the growing number of Malaysians who are applying to change their birth names.
I think this makes it sort of the governments business. If a lot of people don't feel they can live with the name they've been given, I'm happy someone decided to prevent children from being named: K8y, Lobster or Banana.
The list came as a response to the growing number of Malaysians who are applying to change their birth names.
I think this makes it sort of the governments business. If a lot of people don't feel they can live with the name they've been given, I'm happy someone decided to prevent children from being named: K8y, Lobster or Banana.
This message was edited 7/31/2006, 6:04 AM
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There will always be people who are dissatisfied with the names their parents gave them -- even if those names are of the mainstream variety. And those people will seek to change their names upon reaching adulthood, which is their right.
The more power that you give to your government (and giving government the power to determine what you should or should not name your own child is INSANE), the less sovereignty you will have over your own life.
-- Nanaea
The more power that you give to your government (and giving government the power to determine what you should or should not name your own child is INSANE), the less sovereignty you will have over your own life.
-- Nanaea
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ok, there are always people not satisfied with their name, I agree.
But read carefully:
The list came as a response to the GROWING number of Malaysians who are applying to change their birth names.
and personally I think parents who name their child, 007 or this: http://www.newbabynews.net/hospitals/stf33/public/stf33birthannouncement.pl?babyID=h33-440 or Hunchback are the ones that are INSANE, and protecting their children against names such as these is necessary imo. (I do admit that these rules may be too strict, and that it would be best to review each doubtful case seprately)
But read carefully:
The list came as a response to the GROWING number of Malaysians who are applying to change their birth names.
and personally I think parents who name their child, 007 or this: http://www.newbabynews.net/hospitals/stf33/public/stf33birthannouncement.pl?babyID=h33-440 or Hunchback are the ones that are INSANE, and protecting their children against names such as these is necessary imo. (I do admit that these rules may be too strict, and that it would be best to review each doubtful case seprately)
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I'd rather be protected from the government.
"The list came as a response to the GROWING number of Malaysians who are applying to change their birth names."
If there is truly a GROWING number of Malaysians applying to change their birth names, then obviously there must also be a GROWING number of Malaysians who will be highly unlikely to give their own children the sort of names which past generations were likely to give to *their* children.
There is NO (and never should be) need for government coercion in such a matter. Besides, who the hell is the goddamn government to say precisely which names are "acceptable" and which are not? Are you really content with the idea of government officials telling you what to name your child?
I don't know in which country you live, but you must have a tremendous amount of faith in the way your government is running your nation, to feel also that your government has the wisdom to instruct parents in what to name their children. Personally, I'd be happy if my own government (U.S. of A.) would just get its goddamn nose out of the Middle East, so don't even get me started about the government poking its goddamn nose into the business of parents naming their children.
"...and personally I think parents who name their child... are the ones that are INSANE, and protecting their children against names such as these is necessary imo."
You can think they're insane, and call them insane as well, and that's your prerogative. You can also pretend all you want that legislating what people may or may not name their children is "protecting" children, but the reality is that it has less to do with genuine "protection" and more to do with appeasing your own sensibilities.
Whatever somebody else chooses to name their child, same as how they choose to dress their child or where they choose to send their child for schooling, is really none of your business. And certainly not the business of the goddamn government.
-- Nanaea
"The list came as a response to the GROWING number of Malaysians who are applying to change their birth names."
If there is truly a GROWING number of Malaysians applying to change their birth names, then obviously there must also be a GROWING number of Malaysians who will be highly unlikely to give their own children the sort of names which past generations were likely to give to *their* children.
There is NO (and never should be) need for government coercion in such a matter. Besides, who the hell is the goddamn government to say precisely which names are "acceptable" and which are not? Are you really content with the idea of government officials telling you what to name your child?
I don't know in which country you live, but you must have a tremendous amount of faith in the way your government is running your nation, to feel also that your government has the wisdom to instruct parents in what to name their children. Personally, I'd be happy if my own government (U.S. of A.) would just get its goddamn nose out of the Middle East, so don't even get me started about the government poking its goddamn nose into the business of parents naming their children.
"...and personally I think parents who name their child... are the ones that are INSANE, and protecting their children against names such as these is necessary imo."
You can think they're insane, and call them insane as well, and that's your prerogative. You can also pretend all you want that legislating what people may or may not name their children is "protecting" children, but the reality is that it has less to do with genuine "protection" and more to do with appeasing your own sensibilities.
Whatever somebody else chooses to name their child, same as how they choose to dress their child or where they choose to send their child for schooling, is really none of your business. And certainly not the business of the goddamn government.
-- Nanaea
This message was edited 7/31/2006, 10:49 AM
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Sing it.
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Singin' it LOUD
I'd rather be protected FROM the gub'mint,
Than coddled like a baby on its knee,
'Cause the gub'mint is not my freakin' nanny,
And only *I* can say what's best for ME.
Wooo hooo. ba da, ba da, ba da da daaaaa
And if I choose to name my child "Scooter",
That ain't nobody else's goddamn bizz.
But y'all can let the gub'mint pwn yo' azzez --
On *me*, the gub'mint ain't allowed to pizz.
Sing it wid me, now!
But y'all can let the gub'mint pwn yo' azzez --
On *meeeeeee*
Wooo hooo
I say, on *meeeeee*, now
Yah!
The gub'mint
Woooooo ooo ooo oo!
Ain't allowed tooooo
PIZZ!
-- Nanaea
I'd rather be protected FROM the gub'mint,
Than coddled like a baby on its knee,
'Cause the gub'mint is not my freakin' nanny,
And only *I* can say what's best for ME.
Wooo hooo. ba da, ba da, ba da da daaaaa
And if I choose to name my child "Scooter",
That ain't nobody else's goddamn bizz.
But y'all can let the gub'mint pwn yo' azzez --
On *me*, the gub'mint ain't allowed to pizz.
Sing it wid me, now!
But y'all can let the gub'mint pwn yo' azzez --
On *meeeeeee*
Wooo hooo
I say, on *meeeeee*, now
Yah!
The gub'mint
Woooooo ooo ooo oo!
Ain't allowed tooooo
PIZZ!
-- Nanaea
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Standin' o' vashun :)
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*ROTFLMAO*
Bravo! I feel I've witnessed some ingenious street theater! Fantastic!
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
Bravo! I feel I've witnessed some ingenious street theater! Fantastic!
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
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nt
This message was edited 8/1/2006, 5:45 AM
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*claps*
Damn straight!
Damn straight!
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I heart you, Nanaea.
- mirfak
- mirfak
This message was edited 7/31/2006, 11:28 AM
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*heart* backatcha, Mirfak. :)
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I appreciate the fact that you wnat the government to keep their nose out of personal business. And I wouldn't be happy with a government that tells me what to name my child (like governments who have name lists), but I wouldn't have a problem with a government that tells what is absolutely unacceptable (like calling your child 007). I'm from the Netherlands and as far I know there are a few naming rules here: You can't give your child a common Dutch surname as a first name, and you can't call your child God (not sure about God in other languages) or Jesus.
For me it's more important that children have a name that isn't a burden to them than it is for the parents to do whatever they want. They're raising a child not a pet. They have to think about the child's future. Anyone who has the ability to sleep with another person and is fertile can become a parent, that doesn't mean that all of those people are all thinking what's best for their child in the long run when they name them. There are people who name their children as a joke (example: we named him Jimmy Danger so he can say Danger is my middle name. (I don't even mind this one so much, but I'm sure you can imagine worse jokes)). I would just like to see that it's prevented that a child gets a stamp on his forehead just because of his/her name.
Of course this is my opinion and you have yours. That's the way it should be, the world would become a freightening place is everyone had the same view on everything.
ps. could you use a little less blasphemy. Not that I'm very religious or anything, I just think it's a bit rude.
For me it's more important that children have a name that isn't a burden to them than it is for the parents to do whatever they want. They're raising a child not a pet. They have to think about the child's future. Anyone who has the ability to sleep with another person and is fertile can become a parent, that doesn't mean that all of those people are all thinking what's best for their child in the long run when they name them. There are people who name their children as a joke (example: we named him Jimmy Danger so he can say Danger is my middle name. (I don't even mind this one so much, but I'm sure you can imagine worse jokes)). I would just like to see that it's prevented that a child gets a stamp on his forehead just because of his/her name.
Of course this is my opinion and you have yours. That's the way it should be, the world would become a freightening place is everyone had the same view on everything.
ps. could you use a little less blasphemy. Not that I'm very religious or anything, I just think it's a bit rude.
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I'll tell you what's "rude"...
"For me it's more important that children have a name that isn't a burden to them than it is for the parents to do whatever they want. They're raising a child not a pet. They have to think about the child's future."
Your perception of what constitutes a "burden" in a name may be viewed differently by others -- particularly by the bearer of that name.
As for my use of "blasphemy" being "rude"... Let me tell you what real rudeness is: The presumption in suggesting that a parent who names her child something out of the ordinary like, oh, I dunno, maybe "Nanaea", might be better suited to raising a pet, or is not thinking about that child's future.
Goddamnit. :)
-- Nanaea
"For me it's more important that children have a name that isn't a burden to them than it is for the parents to do whatever they want. They're raising a child not a pet. They have to think about the child's future."
Your perception of what constitutes a "burden" in a name may be viewed differently by others -- particularly by the bearer of that name.
As for my use of "blasphemy" being "rude"... Let me tell you what real rudeness is: The presumption in suggesting that a parent who names her child something out of the ordinary like, oh, I dunno, maybe "Nanaea", might be better suited to raising a pet, or is not thinking about that child's future.
Goddamnit. :)
-- Nanaea
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I DON'T have a problem with 'out of the ordinary'! (I like out of the ordinary names, but the keyword is NAMES, check my personal name list and see howmany names I like that people most definately consider 'out of the ordinary') I do have a problem with naming your child Banana, because that child will surely get teased and will grow up having problems with his/her name. The Malsian rules are too strict imo, but the idea of rule giving isn't that strange. There are names that truly offend people (http://www.behindthename.com/bb/arcview.php?id=540223&board=baby) and their are names that just aren't names (like Table or Cholera). I agree with you that it's up to the bearer of the name to consider it a burden or not, I don't think the names that run a very high risk of this should be used (so Banana is out and Cinnamon is debatable (sp?)). The debatable (sp?) names should be allowed, parents should have the final word on that, but the names that truly offend a large group of people for whatever reasonable reason and that have a very high risk of being a burden shouldn't be allowed.
Mar.
Mar.
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I have, admittedly only once, encountered Cinnamon as a surname. So while it might not be acceptable in the Netherlands (or is it only Dutch surnames that are blacklisted?) it would be pretty production-line in the USA, along with all the Taylors and Camerons etc.
The time I saw it was on a list of successful examination candidates. The full name of the child was Grant David Cinnamon, and in my head I instantly heard: " ... but don't let him near the ginger" ... wonder if there's a rule in Malaysia that names can't be sentences!
The time I saw it was on a list of successful examination candidates. The full name of the child was Grant David Cinnamon, and in my head I instantly heard: " ... but don't let him near the ginger" ... wonder if there's a rule in Malaysia that names can't be sentences!
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It's very common Dutch names that are banned. A Dutch surname that is hardly used is ok, and surnames from other countries are ok too (this is all as far as I know). So Jansen and DeVries are certainly not accepted.
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Dutch rules about names
Wat zijn de regels voor de keuze van de voornaam voor kinderen door de ouders?
Als ouders bent u in principe vrij om de voornaam van uw kind te kiezen.
Beperkingen
Er gelden twee beperkingen. Ten eerste mag de naam geen ongepaste naam zijn. Een ongepaste naam is bijvoorbeeld:
een naam die in strijd is met de geldende normen;
een spottende naam, waarvan de drager in zijn leven alleen maar last kan hebben;
een naam die bestaat uit een absurd groot aantal namen.
Ten tweede mag de voornaam geen bestaande achternaam zijn. Een bestaande achternaam is wel mogelijk als dit ook een gebruikelijke voornaam is. Een gebruikelijke voornaam is een naam die min of meer algemeen gebruikelijk is.
translation (may be bad english, because I'm translating as littarally as possible):
What are the rules for the choice of the firstname for children by the parents?
As parent you are in principle free to choose the firstname of your child.
Restictions:
There are two restrictions. First the name is not allowed to be inappropriate. An inappropriate name is for example:
A name that is against the 'current' norms; (Not sure how to translate that better)
A mocking name, by which the bearer will only be bothered in his life;
a name that is made up of an absurd big number of names.
Second, the firstname can't be an existing lastname. An existing lastname is possible if it is also a usual first name. A usual first name is a name that is more or less commonly used.
(a note from me: with this they mean for example: Thomas, it's a lastname, but also a usual first name)
Wat zijn de regels voor de keuze van de voornaam voor kinderen door de ouders?
Als ouders bent u in principe vrij om de voornaam van uw kind te kiezen.
Beperkingen
Er gelden twee beperkingen. Ten eerste mag de naam geen ongepaste naam zijn. Een ongepaste naam is bijvoorbeeld:
een naam die in strijd is met de geldende normen;
een spottende naam, waarvan de drager in zijn leven alleen maar last kan hebben;
een naam die bestaat uit een absurd groot aantal namen.
Ten tweede mag de voornaam geen bestaande achternaam zijn. Een bestaande achternaam is wel mogelijk als dit ook een gebruikelijke voornaam is. Een gebruikelijke voornaam is een naam die min of meer algemeen gebruikelijk is.
translation (may be bad english, because I'm translating as littarally as possible):
What are the rules for the choice of the firstname for children by the parents?
As parent you are in principle free to choose the firstname of your child.
Restictions:
There are two restrictions. First the name is not allowed to be inappropriate. An inappropriate name is for example:
A name that is against the 'current' norms; (Not sure how to translate that better)
A mocking name, by which the bearer will only be bothered in his life;
a name that is made up of an absurd big number of names.
Second, the firstname can't be an existing lastname. An existing lastname is possible if it is also a usual first name. A usual first name is a name that is more or less commonly used.
(a note from me: with this they mean for example: Thomas, it's a lastname, but also a usual first name)
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I can read Dutch actually - but sometimes a black hole opens up. And your translation is very clear.
I suppose that means that you can't use my all-time favourite surname as a first name: VerLoren van Themaat. Always looks like: Lost the subject ... and would count as cruel and unusual, but always gives me a happy moment; especially as there's a large and distinguished family with the name where I live who are, of all things, lawyers!
And the absurdly long chain of names? There was a proud father somewhere in South America, no doubt Brazil or Argentina, who had a child on the day his team won the World Cup; fortunately or unfortunately it was a daughter whom he named Maria + the given names of the entire team. Twelve names, for one small child. Whooh!
All the best from South Africa
I suppose that means that you can't use my all-time favourite surname as a first name: VerLoren van Themaat. Always looks like: Lost the subject ... and would count as cruel and unusual, but always gives me a happy moment; especially as there's a large and distinguished family with the name where I live who are, of all things, lawyers!
And the absurdly long chain of names? There was a proud father somewhere in South America, no doubt Brazil or Argentina, who had a child on the day his team won the World Cup; fortunately or unfortunately it was a daughter whom he named Maria + the given names of the entire team. Twelve names, for one small child. Whooh!
All the best from South Africa
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I thought you could read Dutch, that's why I didn't only posted the translation. And I sure hope that girl likes football (but I'm sure her daddy will make sure that she does :)
btw LOL at VerLoren van Themaat! (and yes calling your child VerLoren alone is sort of strange to say the least (because it means "Lost" for non-Dutch speakers))
btw LOL at VerLoren van Themaat! (and yes calling your child VerLoren alone is sort of strange to say the least (because it means "Lost" for non-Dutch speakers))
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Political correctness gone nuts
"I do have a problem with naming your child Banana... and their are names that just aren't names (like Table or Cholera)."
How many children have you actually encountered named "Banana"? Or "Cholera"? Just because somebody MIGHT give their child an absurd name does not justify any government's pre-emptive strike in the legislating of naming children.
Furthermore, while you congratulate yourself on not having a problem with "out of the ordinary" names, you neglect the fact that those whom you would blindly empower with making the decisions as to what is or is not "acceptable" might be likely to find a number of those entries on YOUR "personal names list" to be absurd or cacophonous and, therefore, illegal to name your child.
More government "protection" = less FREEDOM for all. Here in the U.S. we already have the goddamn Patriot Act -- we don't need an additional, goddamn Patronymic Act.
As for people getting "offended" over other people's personal names (NAMES, of all things, for crapsake), I have no patience whatsoever for such damn silly people. Political correctness is the security blanket for tiresome, small minds.
-- Nanaea
"I do have a problem with naming your child Banana... and their are names that just aren't names (like Table or Cholera)."
How many children have you actually encountered named "Banana"? Or "Cholera"? Just because somebody MIGHT give their child an absurd name does not justify any government's pre-emptive strike in the legislating of naming children.
Furthermore, while you congratulate yourself on not having a problem with "out of the ordinary" names, you neglect the fact that those whom you would blindly empower with making the decisions as to what is or is not "acceptable" might be likely to find a number of those entries on YOUR "personal names list" to be absurd or cacophonous and, therefore, illegal to name your child.
More government "protection" = less FREEDOM for all. Here in the U.S. we already have the goddamn Patriot Act -- we don't need an additional, goddamn Patronymic Act.
As for people getting "offended" over other people's personal names (NAMES, of all things, for crapsake), I have no patience whatsoever for such damn silly people. Political correctness is the security blanket for tiresome, small minds.
-- Nanaea
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First of all I have no idea what Patriot Act is. I'm sure you have a good reason to have a problem with it.
Ok, I haven't met a Banana, I have met people with other names that fall in the same category of names that aren't names. As far as I know they all were laughed at because of their names at some point.
I do value freedom, but NOT at the cost of everything. There are more things I value besides freedom. (Just picture a country without laws at all, you'd have all the freedom you want, but I wouldn't want to live their..)
And not being small minded also includes trying to understand other people, see things from their point of view and seeing why something might offend someone else (without calling them small minded before knowing their point of view), in my opinion. After that you can decide whether the fact that they are offended is a result of small mindedness or having values and morals. I'd be offended if a someone named their child God or my future kid was in class with a kid named Thegreatestkidever. I don't consider myself small minded (yes, you can say that small minded people never perceive themselves as small minded, if you like) and I don't think you know me well enough to call me small minded, just because I can possibly get offended over someone else's name.
Ok, I haven't met a Banana, I have met people with other names that fall in the same category of names that aren't names. As far as I know they all were laughed at because of their names at some point.
I do value freedom, but NOT at the cost of everything. There are more things I value besides freedom. (Just picture a country without laws at all, you'd have all the freedom you want, but I wouldn't want to live their..)
And not being small minded also includes trying to understand other people, see things from their point of view and seeing why something might offend someone else (without calling them small minded before knowing their point of view), in my opinion. After that you can decide whether the fact that they are offended is a result of small mindedness or having values and morals. I'd be offended if a someone named their child God or my future kid was in class with a kid named Thegreatestkidever. I don't consider myself small minded (yes, you can say that small minded people never perceive themselves as small minded, if you like) and I don't think you know me well enough to call me small minded, just because I can possibly get offended over someone else's name.
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It's still none o' yer bizznizz
"I'd be offended if a someone named their child God or my future kid was in class with a kid named Thegreatestkidever."
You get offended too easily. Leather up, for crapsake.
And don't be thinking that you or anyone else has a right to make laws restricting other people in their choice of names for their own children.
Because, you have no more right to tell someone he can't name his kid "God" or "Adonai" (a favorite among hippies -- and, yes, that includes Jewish hippies, too), than some theistic neo-pagan has a right to tell you that you can't name your daughter "Artemis" (a name I noticed on your "personal names list") because they feel that would be disrespectful to "The Goddess".
-- Nanaea
"I'd be offended if a someone named their child God or my future kid was in class with a kid named Thegreatestkidever."
You get offended too easily. Leather up, for crapsake.
And don't be thinking that you or anyone else has a right to make laws restricting other people in their choice of names for their own children.
Because, you have no more right to tell someone he can't name his kid "God" or "Adonai" (a favorite among hippies -- and, yes, that includes Jewish hippies, too), than some theistic neo-pagan has a right to tell you that you can't name your daughter "Artemis" (a name I noticed on your "personal names list") because they feel that would be disrespectful to "The Goddess".
-- Nanaea
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Might be, but it's your opinion I get offended too easily, for me it comes with the values I have. You cmay tell me I shouldn't be offended when someone calls their child God, but I will get offended, and I don't mind that I get offended (for the record: I'm not a follower of any traditional religion, but I still see the idea of God as something I respect). I still don't see freedom as the highest of reachable (sp?) goals, Like I said before: I'm all for freedom, but not at the cost of everything.
But maybe we should drop this discussion, because it's sort of turning in an "it IS"-"it's NOT" discussion. Let me shake your hand and thank you for letting me see your point of view.
But maybe we should drop this discussion, because it's sort of turning in an "it IS"-"it's NOT" discussion. Let me shake your hand and thank you for letting me see your point of view.
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*shake* :)
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Mar, that was most commendable
While I agree with Nanaea on the legislation of names, I commend you for the way you've concluded your share of this discussion.
"Let me shake your hand and thank you for letting me see your point of view."
I highly respect that. Very well done.
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
While I agree with Nanaea on the legislation of names, I commend you for the way you've concluded your share of this discussion.
"Let me shake your hand and thank you for letting me see your point of view."
I highly respect that. Very well done.
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
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Mar a true class act :)
I miss the horned girl you used to have in your profile ;)
I miss the horned girl you used to have in your profile ;)
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thank you Lillian
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For what it's worth, I agree with you, Mar. I think the government *does* have a role to play in curbing the worst excesses of bad naming.
People tend to forget that their beliefs about what constitutes a 'right' are cultural, not universal. The fact that some countries take a more restricted approach to naming doesn't mean that the populace of those countries is somehow oppressed; it just means that their culture - of which the government is a part - thinks of naming as something that requires some restriction. In their culture, they don't have the right to name their children whatever they want, and it is the government's business to intervene when necessary.
Riots in Malaysia over unpopular decisions are not uncommon, but I've never heard of them rioting over name restrictions :-D
♦ Chrisell ♦
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - J.R.R. Tolkien.
People tend to forget that their beliefs about what constitutes a 'right' are cultural, not universal. The fact that some countries take a more restricted approach to naming doesn't mean that the populace of those countries is somehow oppressed; it just means that their culture - of which the government is a part - thinks of naming as something that requires some restriction. In their culture, they don't have the right to name their children whatever they want, and it is the government's business to intervene when necessary.
Riots in Malaysia over unpopular decisions are not uncommon, but I've never heard of them rioting over name restrictions :-D
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - J.R.R. Tolkien.
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Thanks for sharing your opnion, I was beginning to feel lonely in my point of view here :)
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Ha! There is more than one kinda party we could have fun in, Nan :P
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