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ArchivesRe: the first name of Tempy
in reply to a message by Nanaea
Hey Nan,
The dwarfy napettes in Ur-Fantasia do sound objectionable. Also somewhat objectionable is a stereotype that survived in film, the crows in "Dumbo".
But I don't find either Uncle Remus or Amos and Andy (the TV version) objectionable, and quite a few black people I've talked to don't either, because they didn't really demean those characters. Kingfish, Andy, Lightnin, & Co. were no smarter or dumber or more/less ridiculous than most white guys in TV comedies of the time. And Sapphire, Ruby, and Mama were all smarter than they, as SHOULD be in classic situation comedy.
Now, the radio version of A & A, with white folks playing black characters, is still funny but certainly doesn't cut it as acceptable these days.
The dwarfy napettes in Ur-Fantasia do sound objectionable. Also somewhat objectionable is a stereotype that survived in film, the crows in "Dumbo".
But I don't find either Uncle Remus or Amos and Andy (the TV version) objectionable, and quite a few black people I've talked to don't either, because they didn't really demean those characters. Kingfish, Andy, Lightnin, & Co. were no smarter or dumber or more/less ridiculous than most white guys in TV comedies of the time. And Sapphire, Ruby, and Mama were all smarter than they, as SHOULD be in classic situation comedy.
Now, the radio version of A & A, with white folks playing black characters, is still funny but certainly doesn't cut it as acceptable these days.
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Replies
"The dwarfy napettes in Ur-Fantasia do sound objectionable. Also somewhat objectionable is a stereotype that survived in film, the crows in "Dumbo"."
******Yep. That Dumbo crow racial stereotype is even more offensive when you realize that the lead crow just happens to be named "Jim Crow". Of course, Disney redeems itself somewhat by having made the crows the good guys -- but that little "Jim Crow" joke ain't exactly clever or witty.
"But I don't find either Uncle Remus or Amos and Andy (the TV version) objectionable,"
******No, I think they're more goofy than offensive. Of course, I'm not Black, so I pretty much go by how my Black friends and acquaintances feel about that stuff. Same as I go by how my Gay friends and acquaintances feel about a lot of stereotyping of the Gay community -- which eventually will sound just as ignorant to an educated society as racial stereotyping sounds to intelligent people today.
But as with you, my own Black friends and acquaintances who are familiar with those old films don't really raise that much of an eyebrow over them.
-- Nanaea
******Yep. That Dumbo crow racial stereotype is even more offensive when you realize that the lead crow just happens to be named "Jim Crow". Of course, Disney redeems itself somewhat by having made the crows the good guys -- but that little "Jim Crow" joke ain't exactly clever or witty.
"But I don't find either Uncle Remus or Amos and Andy (the TV version) objectionable,"
******No, I think they're more goofy than offensive. Of course, I'm not Black, so I pretty much go by how my Black friends and acquaintances feel about that stuff. Same as I go by how my Gay friends and acquaintances feel about a lot of stereotyping of the Gay community -- which eventually will sound just as ignorant to an educated society as racial stereotyping sounds to intelligent people today.
But as with you, my own Black friends and acquaintances who are familiar with those old films don't really raise that much of an eyebrow over them.
-- Nanaea
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Kinda remins of a line from an old Peter Greenaway flic: "Is a zebra a white animal with black stripes, or a black animal wih white stripes?"
Just a small digression on gays 'n' stereotyping: I'm surprised how gays and gay concerns are somehow associated/ stereotyped with "liberal politics" in the USA. This is not the rule internationally. Sexual preferences are quite independent of politics. For example a well respected conservative Greek politician, the late Constantine Karamanlis, was gay. Manos Hadjidakis, the late great Greek composer and musician was both a right-winger and openly gay.
Just a small digression on gays 'n' stereotyping: I'm surprised how gays and gay concerns are somehow associated/ stereotyped with "liberal politics" in the USA. This is not the rule internationally. Sexual preferences are quite independent of politics. For example a well respected conservative Greek politician, the late Constantine Karamanlis, was gay. Manos Hadjidakis, the late great Greek composer and musician was both a right-winger and openly gay.
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It may be that Europeans are a lot less tight-assed (no pun intended... well, maybe not) about a lot of things that send Mainstream America into a tizzy. So, perhaps gays in Europe don't really feel a need to align themselves with liberal politics in order to have the issues which concern them even have a chance at getting addressed?
Of my gay friends and acquaintances, two whom I would describe as being somewhat conservative are also both European -- and one of these two is a newspaper editor (here in the U.S.).
-- Nanaea
Of my gay friends and acquaintances, two whom I would describe as being somewhat conservative are also both European -- and one of these two is a newspaper editor (here in the U.S.).
-- Nanaea
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Guys
I was thinking about the late Harvey Milk (I think that was his name), the man who was elected in San Fransisco back in the late seventies/early eighties, and assassinated by the person he "ousted".
Another was the young man last year or the year before who was the victim of the "hate crime" (does anybody know who I mean?).
Can anybody explain to me what a person's race/ethnicity/religion/sexual preference has to do with their political ideology? I know, stupid question.
Phyllis (aka Sidhe Uaine or Gaia Euphoria)
I was thinking about the late Harvey Milk (I think that was his name), the man who was elected in San Fransisco back in the late seventies/early eighties, and assassinated by the person he "ousted".
Another was the young man last year or the year before who was the victim of the "hate crime" (does anybody know who I mean?).
Can anybody explain to me what a person's race/ethnicity/religion/sexual preference has to do with their political ideology? I know, stupid question.
Phyllis (aka Sidhe Uaine or Gaia Euphoria)
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"Can anybody explain to me what a person's race/ethnicity/religion/sexual preference has to do with their political ideology? I know, stupid question."
******That's not a stupid question at all, and a person's race/ethnicity/religion/sexual preference shouldn't have anything to do with their political ideology.
Except both you and I know that the Religious Right in this country is fiercely conservative, and many conservatives identify themselves with the Religious Right and (so-called) "Moral Majority". Many minorities, on the other hand, have historically aligned themselves with liberal and radical movements in this country because liberal (and radical) politics are often more likely to present an open forum for the issues which concern minorities.
The best way (I believe) to compare Conservative Politics, Liberal Politics, and Radical Politics, is the following:
Radicals want change quickly.
Liberals want change gradually.
Conservatives want change slowly (if at all).
How fast do you want to see some things in this country changed, Phyllis? :)
-- Nanaea
******That's not a stupid question at all, and a person's race/ethnicity/religion/sexual preference shouldn't have anything to do with their political ideology.
Except both you and I know that the Religious Right in this country is fiercely conservative, and many conservatives identify themselves with the Religious Right and (so-called) "Moral Majority". Many minorities, on the other hand, have historically aligned themselves with liberal and radical movements in this country because liberal (and radical) politics are often more likely to present an open forum for the issues which concern minorities.
The best way (I believe) to compare Conservative Politics, Liberal Politics, and Radical Politics, is the following:
Radicals want change quickly.
Liberals want change gradually.
Conservatives want change slowly (if at all).
How fast do you want to see some things in this country changed, Phyllis? :)
-- Nanaea
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Nanaea
In some cases I'm a radical (like with REASONABLE religious tolerance), in some cases I'm a liberal (like in animal rights) and in other cases I'm a conservative. I know, meschugane. :)
Phyllis (aka Sidhe Uaine or Gaia Euphoria)
In some cases I'm a radical (like with REASONABLE religious tolerance), in some cases I'm a liberal (like in animal rights) and in other cases I'm a conservative. I know, meschugane. :)
Phyllis (aka Sidhe Uaine or Gaia Euphoria)
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Rant du jour
Great "in a nutshell" political analysis Nan :) Last time I had read Penthouse Mag was during the Bush Sr presidency. I recently skimmed though a copy of Penthouse and was (pleasntly) surprised to see how merely two terms of Clinton have radically changed sexual thresholds in the US! Viva Monica! But I digress.
Politics in Europe are hard to pin down nowadays, especially after the collapse of the Soviet Union. In England one sees socialists with free-market policies. In France you see left-wing "intellectuals"-turned- antisemites such as R. Garaudy and former communists joining LePen's party. In Greece, some of the most visceral religious fundamentalists are left-wingers such as K. Zouraris and Lianna Kanelli (the incredible case of a lesbian member of the Greek parliament, representing the Communist Party, who is religious, nationalistic but also a proponent old lost values).
Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it !
Great "in a nutshell" political analysis Nan :) Last time I had read Penthouse Mag was during the Bush Sr presidency. I recently skimmed though a copy of Penthouse and was (pleasntly) surprised to see how merely two terms of Clinton have radically changed sexual thresholds in the US! Viva Monica! But I digress.
Politics in Europe are hard to pin down nowadays, especially after the collapse of the Soviet Union. In England one sees socialists with free-market policies. In France you see left-wing "intellectuals"-turned- antisemites such as R. Garaudy and former communists joining LePen's party. In Greece, some of the most visceral religious fundamentalists are left-wingers such as K. Zouraris and Lianna Kanelli (the incredible case of a lesbian member of the Greek parliament, representing the Communist Party, who is religious, nationalistic but also a proponent old lost values).
Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it !
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