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ArchivesWhat's the difference?
Indulge me for a moment before my question.
Let's say my name is Margaret. But maybe it's spelled Margarett. What about if I go by Marge, which is basically the first five letters. Or maybe I go by Maggie. Or maybe I go by Meg. Though my name could be Megan. Or maybe it's Greta or Marjorie.
I say all that to ask this question: What is the difference between a derivitive, a diminutive, a variant, a short form, a pet form, a nickname, and any other word I'm missing? I just realized as I'm starting work on a book I'm writing, that these are among those words that I now what they mean, but I don't know what they mean either.
Any help?
Let's say my name is Margaret. But maybe it's spelled Margarett. What about if I go by Marge, which is basically the first five letters. Or maybe I go by Maggie. Or maybe I go by Meg. Though my name could be Megan. Or maybe it's Greta or Marjorie.
I say all that to ask this question: What is the difference between a derivitive, a diminutive, a variant, a short form, a pet form, a nickname, and any other word I'm missing? I just realized as I'm starting work on a book I'm writing, that these are among those words that I now what they mean, but I don't know what they mean either.
Any help?
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Replies
May I ask what kind of book project you are working on?
Andy ;—)
Andy ;—)
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Well I haven't exactly nailed it down, but I want to do a book on the etymology of names. I want it to be different than all the babynaming dictionaries out there, and really delve into both where a name comes from and sometimes even why it might be popular today.
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Interesting! How do you write a book in your country (US?)? How do you sell it? Do you need a publisher? Do you have one?
All of this is very intering to me, as I am working on two books in Germany, one of which I have a publisher for. Also I'm thinking of having it translated into English (and adapt it to English/American usage). So I'd be glad to learn anything about book publishing either in the States or in England (or Austrlia or wherever).
I think publishing a name book in the US is kind of difficult because there are just so many names around. I haven't seen many name books whith a lot of names that weren't superficial and inaccurate in many cases.
Andy ;—)
All of this is very intering to me, as I am working on two books in Germany, one of which I have a publisher for. Also I'm thinking of having it translated into English (and adapt it to English/American usage). So I'd be glad to learn anything about book publishing either in the States or in England (or Austrlia or wherever).
I think publishing a name book in the US is kind of difficult because there are just so many names around. I haven't seen many name books whith a lot of names that weren't superficial and inaccurate in many cases.
Andy ;—)
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Well I'm wondering if I'll be able to market it without slapping the word "baby" in there somewhere. Not that people couldn't use it for a babyname book, nor do I even care if that is the section it would get shelved in in a bookstore, but I am wanting to do something a little different.
I don't know a whole lot about publishing in the US, but I know that there are two options. Either get a publisher, in which case it'll be cheaper on you and easier to get the book out and about the country. OR self-publish. It costs quite a bit, but there are companies that specialize in that, and you can order however many copies of a book that you want, but then you have to do a lot of the marketing and getting it into bookstores yourself.
My mom is in the process of getting her first novel self-published. It's due out late fall/early winter. She has a friend who went that route and he's doing very well. He got a deal with our local Border's, who loves to promote local authors, especially when their books deal with local history somehow, which my mom's does. He has helped her in dealing with all the getting it published aspects, and when it comes out is going to help her with getting it sold at Border's, having book signings, etc.
I'm always interested in hearing from people in Germany. Whereabouts are you from if you don't mind? My husband worked in Munchen for a summer, and I went to visit him. We both want to go back SO badly. He speaks (reads/writes/etc) very fluent German (and I speak NONE -- I'm mathematical LOL), and loved getting a chance to actually use his skill and work on it while there.
I don't know a whole lot about publishing in the US, but I know that there are two options. Either get a publisher, in which case it'll be cheaper on you and easier to get the book out and about the country. OR self-publish. It costs quite a bit, but there are companies that specialize in that, and you can order however many copies of a book that you want, but then you have to do a lot of the marketing and getting it into bookstores yourself.
My mom is in the process of getting her first novel self-published. It's due out late fall/early winter. She has a friend who went that route and he's doing very well. He got a deal with our local Border's, who loves to promote local authors, especially when their books deal with local history somehow, which my mom's does. He has helped her in dealing with all the getting it published aspects, and when it comes out is going to help her with getting it sold at Border's, having book signings, etc.
I'm always interested in hearing from people in Germany. Whereabouts are you from if you don't mind? My husband worked in Munchen for a summer, and I went to visit him. We both want to go back SO badly. He speaks (reads/writes/etc) very fluent German (and I speak NONE -- I'm mathematical LOL), and loved getting a chance to actually use his skill and work on it while there.
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Hi Rachel (in case this is your real name)!
We can communicate on this board until they kick us out - or else change to E-mail.
Self-publishing i s interesting and has become affordable in Germany as well. My father-in-law just published his memoires in paperback (15 x 21 cm, 230 pages b/w, coloured cover), and it cost him like 7 Euros per copy. But of course he doesn't want to really sell it, he gives the copies away to his children and grandchildren etc.
A friend and I published a songbook with Hebrew songs 15 years ago this same way (there was no digital print then though) and we have been selling it basicly by mail (and a few bookstores in Germany). We've been on the net for a year now (www.aschira.de) and we are doing fine: We have sold almost 10.000 copies altogether plus cassette tapes and CDs. So if your product is good it will sell.
So what will make your book a good book? Do you know many American name books? Any good ones? All I have is Kolatch's Dictionary of First Names (with a big baby on the cover) and most of it is crap. But I'm sure it sells. So your book can only be better (and hopefully do even better). What languages do you know? You must be into languages somehow, even though you're "mathematical" - or else you wouldn't want to write this book.
I'm afraid in Germany there are quite a number of good name books and if I should recommend one (besides my own, ha ha!), I would say: "Das große Vornamenlexikon" Duden Verlag, ISBN 3-411-06082-4. Of course it is in German, but with a little help from your husband ...
Actually my family and I live a four hours' drive from Munich, going west. Maybe you can find the city of Kaiserslautern on a map, it's not far from the French border. Now we live 30 km south of it, and if you happen to come to Germany, do drop in!
Andy ;—)
We can communicate on this board until they kick us out - or else change to E-mail.
Self-publishing i s interesting and has become affordable in Germany as well. My father-in-law just published his memoires in paperback (15 x 21 cm, 230 pages b/w, coloured cover), and it cost him like 7 Euros per copy. But of course he doesn't want to really sell it, he gives the copies away to his children and grandchildren etc.
A friend and I published a songbook with Hebrew songs 15 years ago this same way (there was no digital print then though) and we have been selling it basicly by mail (and a few bookstores in Germany). We've been on the net for a year now (www.aschira.de) and we are doing fine: We have sold almost 10.000 copies altogether plus cassette tapes and CDs. So if your product is good it will sell.
So what will make your book a good book? Do you know many American name books? Any good ones? All I have is Kolatch's Dictionary of First Names (with a big baby on the cover) and most of it is crap. But I'm sure it sells. So your book can only be better (and hopefully do even better). What languages do you know? You must be into languages somehow, even though you're "mathematical" - or else you wouldn't want to write this book.
I'm afraid in Germany there are quite a number of good name books and if I should recommend one (besides my own, ha ha!), I would say: "Das große Vornamenlexikon" Duden Verlag, ISBN 3-411-06082-4. Of course it is in German, but with a little help from your husband ...
Actually my family and I live a four hours' drive from Munich, going west. Maybe you can find the city of Kaiserslautern on a map, it's not far from the French border. Now we live 30 km south of it, and if you happen to come to Germany, do drop in!
Andy ;—)
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If you ever want to email me, you can get in contact with me through fgmoderator at yahoo dot com.
Kaiserslautern sounds very familiar to me. I wonder if my husband has been there. Besides working in Germany one summer, he has been there a couple of times with the military. I'll have to ask him when he gets up.
Kaiserslautern sounds very familiar to me. I wonder if my husband has been there. Besides working in Germany one summer, he has been there a couple of times with the military. I'll have to ask him when he gets up.
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As far as I know it, they go like this. Unfortunately, these words tend to cross over quite a bit--some are basically synonyms. It's hard to put an exact definition for these, but that would be a very good idea for your book. Right in front, explain the way you're using each term.
Derivitive: The definition of a derivation is this: "the formation of a word from another word or base (as by the addition of a usually noninflectional affix)" (m-w.com). So a name derivation would be a name that comes from another. I think that this could be considered a catch-all for the other terms, the way that alliteration covers both assonance (repeated vowel sounds) and consonance (repeated consonant sounds).
Diminutive: This would be the shorter version of a longer name.
Variant: This would be another form of the name. It could be a foreign variant, a spelling variant, or perhaps another variant I can't think of. Jacques could be considered a variant of James and Kayleigh a variant of Kaylee--or the other way around.
Short form: Err...a short form of a longer name.
Pet form: A pet form would be a short form, heh. However, it has a connotation (to me, as least) of familial use and a certain unrelatedness to the bearer's actual name. As an example, I alone call my sister, Ruby, Vesta. Her friends don't. My parents and my other sister don't--but my other sister will sometimes call her Fetch. However, the unrelatedness to the actual name isn't really a big part, now that I think on it. Actually (sorry, I'm kind of going with the state-of-consciousness sort of posting style!), I think the idea could be that it's soft and very familial. But then, it could simply just be exactly like a nickname. It all depends on what you think.
Nickname: In modern usage, it's anything other than their proper name that you might regularly call another person. For example, I call my sister, Sara, Slinky and my other sister, Ruby, Boo. However, in the past, I think it'd relate specifically to names like Slinky--those that aren't related to the actual name. (Slinky is taken from one of Sara's favourite shirts, which has a slinky on it. Boo, on the other hand, comes from the fact that the sounds are in Ruby's name.) So things like Red and Curly would fall under it, while Sadie and Sallie wouldn't.
Derivitive: The definition of a derivation is this: "the formation of a word from another word or base (as by the addition of a usually noninflectional affix)" (m-w.com). So a name derivation would be a name that comes from another. I think that this could be considered a catch-all for the other terms, the way that alliteration covers both assonance (repeated vowel sounds) and consonance (repeated consonant sounds).
Diminutive: This would be the shorter version of a longer name.
Variant: This would be another form of the name. It could be a foreign variant, a spelling variant, or perhaps another variant I can't think of. Jacques could be considered a variant of James and Kayleigh a variant of Kaylee--or the other way around.
Short form: Err...a short form of a longer name.
Pet form: A pet form would be a short form, heh. However, it has a connotation (to me, as least) of familial use and a certain unrelatedness to the bearer's actual name. As an example, I alone call my sister, Ruby, Vesta. Her friends don't. My parents and my other sister don't--but my other sister will sometimes call her Fetch. However, the unrelatedness to the actual name isn't really a big part, now that I think on it. Actually (sorry, I'm kind of going with the state-of-consciousness sort of posting style!), I think the idea could be that it's soft and very familial. But then, it could simply just be exactly like a nickname. It all depends on what you think.
Nickname: In modern usage, it's anything other than their proper name that you might regularly call another person. For example, I call my sister, Sara, Slinky and my other sister, Ruby, Boo. However, in the past, I think it'd relate specifically to names like Slinky--those that aren't related to the actual name. (Slinky is taken from one of Sara's favourite shirts, which has a slinky on it. Boo, on the other hand, comes from the fact that the sounds are in Ruby's name.) So things like Red and Curly would fall under it, while Sadie and Sallie wouldn't.
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This is very interesting, I have often wondered about this.
DERIVATIVE: I haven't read this word in an name book and I wouldn't use it myself. It seems indeed too general and if I used it then only to describe the connection between a name and a vocabulary word.
DIMINUTIVE: I think, it's not a shorter form of a name, but rather the name for a shorter bearer, of you know what I mean. In fact diminutives are usually longer, because specific syllables such as -ke or -ette are added to the name.
PET FORM: I would say a pet form would have to have something to do with the real name (even though some changes are hard to follow, like Mary to Polly). It's still the same name, but it was changed (not neccessarily shortened) to show affection towards the bearer (usually within a family or among good friends).
NICKNAME: It doesn't have to be related to the real name, but it can. It can show affection, but also derision. (Going by the etymology of the word nickname, it should be an additional name.)
VARIANT: This always sounds rather vague to me, any variation could be called a variant.
What do all the others think?
Andy ;—)
DERIVATIVE: I haven't read this word in an name book and I wouldn't use it myself. It seems indeed too general and if I used it then only to describe the connection between a name and a vocabulary word.
DIMINUTIVE: I think, it's not a shorter form of a name, but rather the name for a shorter bearer, of you know what I mean. In fact diminutives are usually longer, because specific syllables such as -ke or -ette are added to the name.
PET FORM: I would say a pet form would have to have something to do with the real name (even though some changes are hard to follow, like Mary to Polly). It's still the same name, but it was changed (not neccessarily shortened) to show affection towards the bearer (usually within a family or among good friends).
NICKNAME: It doesn't have to be related to the real name, but it can. It can show affection, but also derision. (Going by the etymology of the word nickname, it should be an additional name.)
VARIANT: This always sounds rather vague to me, any variation could be called a variant.
What do all the others think?
Andy ;—)
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"Diminutive" form usually means part of a word is added or changed .. like adding "et" to Jane to get Janet or Janette. Janelle, too. It also describes names like Jamie, diminutive of James.
In some languages a diminutive has a definite form, like -ita or -ito in Spanish, or (I think) -an in Irish (see the entry for Ryan), which changes the meaning of the name from [meaning] to "little [meaning]".
Diminutives and pet forms are not readily distinguishable in English. At least not to me.
- chazda
In some languages a diminutive has a definite form, like -ita or -ito in Spanish, or (I think) -an in Irish (see the entry for Ryan), which changes the meaning of the name from [meaning] to "little [meaning]".
Diminutives and pet forms are not readily distinguishable in English. At least not to me.
- chazda
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Another Thing about varient
I more consider variants to be different version or spelling of the name used in the same language as the variant was taken from.
For instance, I wouldn't think of Margrethe as a variant of Margaret. I would say its a Danish form of Margaret.
I hope that made sense, in some way
Lala
I more consider variants to be different version or spelling of the name used in the same language as the variant was taken from.
For instance, I wouldn't think of Margrethe as a variant of Margaret. I would say its a Danish form of Margaret.
I hope that made sense, in some way
Lala
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Very good question! Whre are all you scholars? I'm getting excited!
Andy ;—)
Andy ;—)
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