New Post
Search
Help
ArchivesRen - Lotus
I have been trying to determine the legitimacy of a comment made on another forum I have posted on regarding the use of Ren as a middle name. The poster stated that he was studied in Japanese culture. He advised me that it was common practice to combine -ren with other words to create names. He included a few examples/recommendations of combinations, like Maren and Karen, and did provide a definition for each addition. However, he was not clear whether the combination name meant BOTH lotus and whatever definition, or if the combination name became in its entirety the definition he provided. Furthermore, I have been unable to verify that the examples he provided are in fact used as names or even have the meaning he attached to them. Can someone tell me whether there is any truth to the statements the poster made about combo names and whether combining Ren with another word changes the lotus definition? If someone could even just point me in the direction of resources where I could sort this out myself I would appreciate it!
1
Replies
I want to say, having re-read my initial post, that I did not mean any of my remarks to come across as being negative or ungrateful towards the poster from the other forum I used. My inability to understand the poster's input and/or find resources online to clarify the information provided is neither a reflection of the poster's ability to communicate nor reason to believe his statements might be incorrect or false. I appreciate ALL of the people who have taken time to respond to me and direct me in my pursuit of finding the perfect name, from this forum, and all the others I have utilized!
1
Yes, Maren and Karen actually are used in Japan as girl's names, but Karen is far more common than Maren. They are pronounced mah-ren and kah-ren, with the ah of "father."
About meanings, if a Japanese name consists of two characters and one means "lotus," then the definition becomes "lotus" + whatever the other character means. The lotus meaning does not disappear.
However, there is more than one kanji (Chinese character) which is pronounced Ren, so not every name with that syllable will have anything to do with a lotus. I would be interested to see the combinations and definitions this individual provided.
There are far too many potential ways to write Karen and Maren in Japanese to list them all, but here are some examples that DO include the lotus meaning. You can see that the second character is the same in all.
Karen 香蓮 "fragrant lotus"
Karen 風蓮 "lotus wind"
Karen 花蓮 "lotus flower"
Maren 真蓮 "true lotus"
And here are some that do NOT:
Karen 香暖 "warm fragrance"
Karen 夏恋 "summer love"
Karen 佳麗 "goodness and beauty"
Maren 真恋 "truth and love"
It is also correct that Ren can be either be used as a name on its own, or combined with various other syllables. As I mentioned, the most common in Japan is Karen (which no doubt is due to its also being a borrowed English names). Others that are fairly common are Aren, Eren, Saren, Sharen, Seren, and Miren, as well as Renka, Renko, Renna, Renri.
Again I want to emphasize that none of these names necessarily includes the "lotus" meaning. They might, or might not. It depends entirely on which characters the parents chose to write the name.
I hope this helps.
About meanings, if a Japanese name consists of two characters and one means "lotus," then the definition becomes "lotus" + whatever the other character means. The lotus meaning does not disappear.
However, there is more than one kanji (Chinese character) which is pronounced Ren, so not every name with that syllable will have anything to do with a lotus. I would be interested to see the combinations and definitions this individual provided.
There are far too many potential ways to write Karen and Maren in Japanese to list them all, but here are some examples that DO include the lotus meaning. You can see that the second character is the same in all.
Karen 香蓮 "fragrant lotus"
Karen 風蓮 "lotus wind"
Karen 花蓮 "lotus flower"
Maren 真蓮 "true lotus"
And here are some that do NOT:
Karen 香暖 "warm fragrance"
Karen 夏恋 "summer love"
Karen 佳麗 "goodness and beauty"
Maren 真恋 "truth and love"
It is also correct that Ren can be either be used as a name on its own, or combined with various other syllables. As I mentioned, the most common in Japan is Karen (which no doubt is due to its also being a borrowed English names). Others that are fairly common are Aren, Eren, Saren, Sharen, Seren, and Miren, as well as Renka, Renko, Renna, Renri.
Again I want to emphasize that none of these names necessarily includes the "lotus" meaning. They might, or might not. It depends entirely on which characters the parents chose to write the name.
I hope this helps.
This message was edited 5/11/2014, 12:55 PM
1
Thank you for replying. Here are the names/definitions that were offered:
Aren (ah-ren) - apricot; sky/heaven
Eren (ay-ren) - fate/bond/family ties; party/banquet; blossom
Kairen (like Hawaiian kai) - ocean
Karen - (kah-ren) flower/blossom/petal; summer; song; fragrant/incence
Koren - this is a complete word that means "crimson lotus", instead of a combination that's only used in people's names
Sharen - silk/gauze
Joren - castle
Seren (seh-ren) - opportunity
Seiren (say-ren) - star/constellation
Maren - truth, genuine
Meiren (may-ren) - bright/brightness (in terms of light), also clarity/clear (in terms of both weather and vision/acumen)
I do not have any Japanese background, nor does my fiance. However, "Lotus" is a fitting honor name for my mothers, as it is a water flower which their middle names (Sue and Lynn) can be combined to mean. I researched forever to find a word meaning lotus which would make a good middle name, and Ren is simply lovely. I want to be sure I use it correctly. Also, I like the idea of adding to it to make my daughter's mn even more meaningful. Thank you again for the information!
Aren (ah-ren) - apricot; sky/heaven
Eren (ay-ren) - fate/bond/family ties; party/banquet; blossom
Kairen (like Hawaiian kai) - ocean
Karen - (kah-ren) flower/blossom/petal; summer; song; fragrant/incence
Koren - this is a complete word that means "crimson lotus", instead of a combination that's only used in people's names
Sharen - silk/gauze
Joren - castle
Seren (seh-ren) - opportunity
Seiren (say-ren) - star/constellation
Maren - truth, genuine
Meiren (may-ren) - bright/brightness (in terms of light), also clarity/clear (in terms of both weather and vision/acumen)
I do not have any Japanese background, nor does my fiance. However, "Lotus" is a fitting honor name for my mothers, as it is a water flower which their middle names (Sue and Lynn) can be combined to mean. I researched forever to find a word meaning lotus which would make a good middle name, and Ren is simply lovely. I want to be sure I use it correctly. Also, I like the idea of adding to it to make my daughter's mn even more meaningful. Thank you again for the information!
1
OK, yes, I see what s/he was doing with the meanings. The meanings given look accurate to me and refer to the part of the name that is NOT Ren. For example:
Kairen = kai "ocean" + ren "lotus"
So you would need to tack "lotus" on to what is listed here to get the full meaning.
Ren by itself is a fine middle name, and a longer name would be nice too. Looking through my master list of Japanese girl's names, I did find one example of Suren 素蓮, "plain, unadorned; plain white silk" + "lotus." That looks almost like a combination of Sue and Lynn.
Let me know if I can help any more!
Kairen = kai "ocean" + ren "lotus"
So you would need to tack "lotus" on to what is listed here to get the full meaning.
Ren by itself is a fine middle name, and a longer name would be nice too. Looking through my master list of Japanese girl's names, I did find one example of Suren 素蓮, "plain, unadorned; plain white silk" + "lotus." That looks almost like a combination of Sue and Lynn.
Let me know if I can help any more!
This message was edited 5/11/2014, 7:53 PM
1
Thank you again! If I could pick your brain for just another moment... You listed some other names that were quite pretty; would you be able to point me in the direction of a reputable online resource where I could research the meanings of various combinations? I really want to give this little girl a sweet, peaceful, and yet strong name, as her sister's names are all strong, but on the fiery/passionate side. I have no idea whet to even begin looking!
1
Unfortunately there is no reliable online resource for Japanese names that is user-friendly for an English speaker. One problem is that the number of potential names, and their potential meanings, is so vast that it's completely impractical to list them all. Most lists that you will find in English give only the most common names with their one or two most common meanings.
The online dictionary ENAMDICT is excellent for looking up kanji spellings of Japanese names, but it doesn't give definitions of the kanji in English. You would need to look up each kanji separately, and that's quite laborious. If you would like to take a look, the link is http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1E . Select "Japanese names (ENAMDICT)" from the drop-down box labeled "Dictionary." You then type a name, such as Karen, in the Keyword box and will get a list of kanji spellings.
From there, you can copy the characters and look them up in the Kanji Lookup section. But as I said, it's laborious, and there are about 100 spellings given for this one name alone. From the point of view of an English-speaker looking for a name with a particular meaning, it's much easier to ask a Japanese-speaker to suggest names that might incorporate that meaning.
I'm sorry I can't be more helpful! If a particular name that you've seen or heard appeals to you and you'd like to know its meanings, or if there are particular meanings that you'd like to incorporate together, I might be able to help with that. Or maybe someone else here knows of a resource better than the one I've mentioned.
The online dictionary ENAMDICT is excellent for looking up kanji spellings of Japanese names, but it doesn't give definitions of the kanji in English. You would need to look up each kanji separately, and that's quite laborious. If you would like to take a look, the link is http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1E . Select "Japanese names (ENAMDICT)" from the drop-down box labeled "Dictionary." You then type a name, such as Karen, in the Keyword box and will get a list of kanji spellings.
From there, you can copy the characters and look them up in the Kanji Lookup section. But as I said, it's laborious, and there are about 100 spellings given for this one name alone. From the point of view of an English-speaker looking for a name with a particular meaning, it's much easier to ask a Japanese-speaker to suggest names that might incorporate that meaning.
I'm sorry I can't be more helpful! If a particular name that you've seen or heard appeals to you and you'd like to know its meanings, or if there are particular meanings that you'd like to incorporate together, I might be able to help with that. Or maybe someone else here knows of a resource better than the one I've mentioned.
1
Well that was a mental workout! The link you provided will have me up for days; I really do love to research! I will ask what common meanings you associate with Miren and Renna, and whether Rene or Renee are names - if so, would you please provide common meanings? And then I will try and leave you be, :-). I appreciate all your help!
1
I think a common trait of people who frequent this board is that they enjoy research! I love to talk about Japanese names, and rarely get the chance.
Yes, I do find Rene as a Japanese girl's name, although none of the examples include the meaning "lotus." No reason why you could not use that character in the name, however.
Here are some meanings of Rene:
伶音 actor + sound
玲音 clear, sweet (sound) + sound
礼音 manners, etiquette + sound
礼子 manners, etiquette + child
礼寧 manners, etiquette + peaceful, tranquil
麗音 beautiful + sound
恋 love
恋音 love + sound
澪音 waterway, channel + sound
I would not know if one of these is more common than another. I think Rene is a rare name in Japan and most likely borrowed from English/French.
Miren is also comparatively rare; Renna appears to be considerably more common.
Some meanings of Ren are: lotus; love; actor; wise; clear, sweet (sound); manners, etiquette; bell; beautiful.
Meanings of Na: name; summer; vegetables; south; pear; as well as a character 奈 very commonly used in names which no longer has a distinct meaning but is used for its phonetic value--it is the "Na" of the city of Nara.
Meanings of Mi: beauty 美 (one of the most common characters used in modern Japanese girl's names); reality, truth; 8th zodiac sign (the year of the sheep, 2015); charming, bewitching.
You can mix and match any of these as you choose, just as Japanese parents do!
Yes, I do find Rene as a Japanese girl's name, although none of the examples include the meaning "lotus." No reason why you could not use that character in the name, however.
Here are some meanings of Rene:
伶音 actor + sound
玲音 clear, sweet (sound) + sound
礼音 manners, etiquette + sound
礼子 manners, etiquette + child
礼寧 manners, etiquette + peaceful, tranquil
麗音 beautiful + sound
恋 love
恋音 love + sound
澪音 waterway, channel + sound
I would not know if one of these is more common than another. I think Rene is a rare name in Japan and most likely borrowed from English/French.
Miren is also comparatively rare; Renna appears to be considerably more common.
Some meanings of Ren are: lotus; love; actor; wise; clear, sweet (sound); manners, etiquette; bell; beautiful.
Meanings of Na: name; summer; vegetables; south; pear; as well as a character 奈 very commonly used in names which no longer has a distinct meaning but is used for its phonetic value--it is the "Na" of the city of Nara.
Meanings of Mi: beauty 美 (one of the most common characters used in modern Japanese girl's names); reality, truth; 8th zodiac sign (the year of the sheep, 2015); charming, bewitching.
You can mix and match any of these as you choose, just as Japanese parents do!
1
Awesome! I am so glad I found this forum... you have helped me tremendously! Now I just need to start seriously working on the first name so I can finalize the middle name. Fun fun! Thank you again!
1
Irrelevant observation.
Just adding that 奈 is
5948 22856 *nɑ̀i noi6 nai4 NAI4 NAY NA nại NA DAI KARANASHI but, how; bear, stand, endure
even though its use in a name might not use any of the meanings. Also Nara has been spelt in many ways in the past, and there are even theories that the name may have been non-Japanese loan.
Just adding that 奈 is
5948 22856 *nɑ̀i noi6 nai4 NAI4 NAY NA nại NA DAI KARANASHI but, how; bear, stand, endure
even though its use in a name might not use any of the meanings. Also Nara has been spelt in many ways in the past, and there are even theories that the name may have been non-Japanese loan.
1
Very interesting. The theory that Nara is a non-Japanese loan seems reasonable because, unlike the vast majority of place-names, its kanji are apparently phonetic and have no clear meaning. Certainly 奈 is used by modern parents for its phonetic value only, though it is far from the only kanji used this way. Other examples would be 亜 "a" and 伊 "i."
1
I don't know about all of it, but a lot of the time I've seen that the combined meaning is usually "x meaning" AND "y meaning", sometimes combined to mean "x relation to y", either way with both meanings kept in tact.
For example:
Atsuko: From Japanese 温 (atsu) "warm", 篤 (atsu) "kind, cordial" or 敦 (atsu) "honest" combined with 子 (ko) "child".
Chinatsu: From Japanese 千 (chi) "thousand" and 夏 (natsu) "summer".
Hanako: From Japanese 花 (hana) "flower" and 子 (ko) "child".
So I would think that what name -ren is a part of will still have 'lotus' as part of its meaning.
Anyway, Ren can be used on its own as a name if you like, you don't need to combine it with anything. (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren#Notable_people) And when it comes to Maren and Karen... I highly doubt anyone would assume the meaning of those names to be anything other than the traditional meanings as listed by this site, as those are most common (are Maren and Karen even used in Japan in Japanese meanings??)
For example:
Atsuko: From Japanese 温 (atsu) "warm", 篤 (atsu) "kind, cordial" or 敦 (atsu) "honest" combined with 子 (ko) "child".
Chinatsu: From Japanese 千 (chi) "thousand" and 夏 (natsu) "summer".
Hanako: From Japanese 花 (hana) "flower" and 子 (ko) "child".
So I would think that what name -ren is a part of will still have 'lotus' as part of its meaning.
Anyway, Ren can be used on its own as a name if you like, you don't need to combine it with anything. (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren#Notable_people) And when it comes to Maren and Karen... I highly doubt anyone would assume the meaning of those names to be anything other than the traditional meanings as listed by this site, as those are most common (are Maren and Karen even used in Japan in Japanese meanings??)
1
Thank you for your response. Claudia agrees with you that both meanings in the combination can remain intact. As far as people mistaking our mn choice for a more traditional American one; we are not really worried about that. The meaning of the name is special to us; that's all we care about. Although, considering that we are American, perhaps picking a -ren name which is also a recognizable Western name might be sensible.... hmmm. Thank you again for replying!
1