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ArchivesRe: Help, need some welshman <-------------
in reply to a message by Ava
It's An-wen and yes, it would not only be non-Welsh and incorrect to pin your own do-it-my-way pronunciation on it, it would be disrespectful and intolerant to do so. It's a foreign tongue with it's own alphabet, pronunciation and proud tradition, no Burger King. If you like Anven, make it up and spell what you mean.
To get a V sound in Welsh you need to spell it with a F. Anfen. And no, it isn't a name. You can make up Anven in modern American/Australian/Canadian English if you like but it will have no connection to Welsh at all and thus no meaning.
Devon
To get a V sound in Welsh you need to spell it with a F. Anfen. And no, it isn't a name. You can make up Anven in modern American/Australian/Canadian English if you like but it will have no connection to Welsh at all and thus no meaning.
Devon
1
Replies
DEVON
"it would be disrespectful and intolerant to do so."
Gee, I just asked if it would be wrong, no need to react like that.
"It's a foreign tongue with it's own alphabet, pronunciation and proud tradition"
True, but then again, what about:
Kaitlynn,Aryn, Rylee, Shaina, Kori, Kollin, Roree??
"no Burger King."
And you tell me Im disrespectful??
"it would be disrespectful and intolerant to do so."
Gee, I just asked if it would be wrong, no need to react like that.
"It's a foreign tongue with it's own alphabet, pronunciation and proud tradition"
True, but then again, what about:
Kaitlynn,Aryn, Rylee, Shaina, Kori, Kollin, Roree??
"no Burger King."
And you tell me Im disrespectful??
1
Yes, 'wrong' and 'wrong' in a 'disrespectful' way. Don't ask such questions if you only want reassurances that you're right or want it all PC'd up to say that it's not 'right' but not 'wrong' either - that's the speech of timidity and immaturity and I don't use it, nor do many around here who you've clearly yet to meet.
Kaitlynn, Aryn, Rylee, Shaina, etc., etc., ad nauseum are in exactly the same boat - created by intolerant ignorants and perpetuated by pretty much the same. As your mother used to say - just because everyone else jumps off a bridge, would you? They aren't 'right', just because they've got numbers. One of the reasons behind Jefferson's theory of an intellectual elite republic rather than a mass democracy was how very wrong the thoughtless masses could be - as witnessed in the handling of the French Revolution.
'Burger King' is my terminology for the American (in particular but by no means exclusive) theory that if they like the way a foreign word looks but not how it's said they'll just have it 'their way'. Their ego means that they see nothing wrong with this. I see lots wrong with it but I won't bore you with the treatise other than the undercurrent of strong disapproval already present.
Sorry if it's not the cotton-wool wrapped sort of approval you're accustomed to but here we take naming and the issues surrounding naming very seriously. How would you feel it someone in Lebanon decided that Ava looked pretty but sounded funny in Arabic so they'd just say 'Asha' and decide it means 'princess of the peaceful oasis'. How stupid and misguided of them? How wrong? Well, that pretty much what I think of it being done in English - inaccurate, intolerant, ignorant. Plain and simple and plainly spoken.
Devon
Kaitlynn, Aryn, Rylee, Shaina, etc., etc., ad nauseum are in exactly the same boat - created by intolerant ignorants and perpetuated by pretty much the same. As your mother used to say - just because everyone else jumps off a bridge, would you? They aren't 'right', just because they've got numbers. One of the reasons behind Jefferson's theory of an intellectual elite republic rather than a mass democracy was how very wrong the thoughtless masses could be - as witnessed in the handling of the French Revolution.
'Burger King' is my terminology for the American (in particular but by no means exclusive) theory that if they like the way a foreign word looks but not how it's said they'll just have it 'their way'. Their ego means that they see nothing wrong with this. I see lots wrong with it but I won't bore you with the treatise other than the undercurrent of strong disapproval already present.
Sorry if it's not the cotton-wool wrapped sort of approval you're accustomed to but here we take naming and the issues surrounding naming very seriously. How would you feel it someone in Lebanon decided that Ava looked pretty but sounded funny in Arabic so they'd just say 'Asha' and decide it means 'princess of the peaceful oasis'. How stupid and misguided of them? How wrong? Well, that pretty much what I think of it being done in English - inaccurate, intolerant, ignorant. Plain and simple and plainly spoken.
Devon
1
Yes, 'wrong' and 'wrong' in a 'disrespectful' way. Don't ask such questions if you only want reassurances that you're right or want it all PC'd up to say that it's not 'right' but not 'wrong' either - that's the speech of timidity and immaturity and I don't use it, nor do many around here who you've clearly yet to meet.
Its never wrong to ask, if you dont know the answer. I didnt want any reassurances, i didnt know anything, therefore the question.
Who knows, Im not familiar with the welsh language, maybe the name Anven already existed..
Kaitlynn, Aryn, Rylee, Shaina, etc., etc., ad nauseum are in exactly the same boat - created by intolerant ignorants and perpetuated by pretty much the same. As your mother used to say - just because everyone else jumps off a bridge, would you? They aren't 'right', just because they've got numbers. One of the reasons behind Jefferson's theory of an intellectual elite republic rather than a mass democracy was how very wrong the thoughtless masses could be - as witnessed in the handling of the French Revolution.
'Burger King' is my terminology for the American (in particular but by no means exclusive) theory that if they like the way a foreign word looks but not how it's said they'll just have it 'their way'. Their ego means that they see nothing wrong with this. I see lots wrong with it but I won't bore you with the treatise other than the undercurrent of strong disapproval already present.
Sorry if it's not the cotton-wool wrapped sort of approval you're accustomed to but here we take naming and the issues surrounding naming very seriously. How would you feel it someone in Lebanon decided that Ava looked pretty but sounded funny in Arabic so they'd just say 'Asha' and decide it means 'princess of the peaceful oasis'. How stupid and misguided of them? How wrong? Well, that pretty much what I think of it being done in English - inaccurate, intolerant, ignorant. Plain and simple and plainly spoken.
Oh please. Even the old & traditional irish, welsh, scottish names and place names changed often over the years. Some families dropped the O' in front of their names. Other families adopted more “English” names. Some families changed the spelling of their name. Even place names evolved overtime.
What intolerant ignorants right!?
Sorry if it's not the cotton-wool wrapped sort of approval you're accustomed to but here we take naming and the issues surrounding naming very seriously.
Waaaay to seriously...
Its never wrong to ask, if you dont know the answer. I didnt want any reassurances, i didnt know anything, therefore the question.
Who knows, Im not familiar with the welsh language, maybe the name Anven already existed..
Kaitlynn, Aryn, Rylee, Shaina, etc., etc., ad nauseum are in exactly the same boat - created by intolerant ignorants and perpetuated by pretty much the same. As your mother used to say - just because everyone else jumps off a bridge, would you? They aren't 'right', just because they've got numbers. One of the reasons behind Jefferson's theory of an intellectual elite republic rather than a mass democracy was how very wrong the thoughtless masses could be - as witnessed in the handling of the French Revolution.
'Burger King' is my terminology for the American (in particular but by no means exclusive) theory that if they like the way a foreign word looks but not how it's said they'll just have it 'their way'. Their ego means that they see nothing wrong with this. I see lots wrong with it but I won't bore you with the treatise other than the undercurrent of strong disapproval already present.
Sorry if it's not the cotton-wool wrapped sort of approval you're accustomed to but here we take naming and the issues surrounding naming very seriously. How would you feel it someone in Lebanon decided that Ava looked pretty but sounded funny in Arabic so they'd just say 'Asha' and decide it means 'princess of the peaceful oasis'. How stupid and misguided of them? How wrong? Well, that pretty much what I think of it being done in English - inaccurate, intolerant, ignorant. Plain and simple and plainly spoken.
Oh please. Even the old & traditional irish, welsh, scottish names and place names changed often over the years. Some families dropped the O' in front of their names. Other families adopted more “English” names. Some families changed the spelling of their name. Even place names evolved overtime.
What intolerant ignorants right!?
Sorry if it's not the cotton-wool wrapped sort of approval you're accustomed to but here we take naming and the issues surrounding naming very seriously.
Waaaay to seriously...
1
Oh dear, still excited aren't we. Okay, there are major differences between families adapting to new climes, new languages, new environs and the rape and plunder of smaller, 'lesser' cultures and languages by those who care not a whit for how the people thus affronted might feel on the matter. Yes, language changes over time. No, it doesn't need rank amateurs whipping it on.
I've got no problem with you asking the question which is why I bothered to answered it correctly. I can even patiently tell you that while the close Annwn/Annwfn does indeed mean, as posted, 'the underworld, hell' that equally close is Annwyl which means 'beloved, dear' and if it would help, can tell you how to pronounce them. I'll also nicely tidy up your sentiments into...
There is no shame in not knowing, there is only shame in not finding out. - Chinese proverb
A motto I agree with wholeheartedly.
However, I'm getting a tad impatient with the reaction to precisely what you sought. You clearly had some instinctive concern about changing the name willy-nilly like that and definitely I think it would be wrong and in response to your query, said so. If you don't like that, oh well.
And now you want un-serious. Did you come here and post expecting that we would have a bit of a giggle, type down anything silly we could think of and flitter off to run in the sprinklers or that we take your query seriously, do serious research and give you a serious answer? We do the latter. Well, usually. Sometimes we slip into fecitiousness and the occasional hiccup of sarcasm ;o)
Devon
I've got no problem with you asking the question which is why I bothered to answered it correctly. I can even patiently tell you that while the close Annwn/Annwfn does indeed mean, as posted, 'the underworld, hell' that equally close is Annwyl which means 'beloved, dear' and if it would help, can tell you how to pronounce them. I'll also nicely tidy up your sentiments into...
There is no shame in not knowing, there is only shame in not finding out. - Chinese proverb
A motto I agree with wholeheartedly.
However, I'm getting a tad impatient with the reaction to precisely what you sought. You clearly had some instinctive concern about changing the name willy-nilly like that and definitely I think it would be wrong and in response to your query, said so. If you don't like that, oh well.
And now you want un-serious. Did you come here and post expecting that we would have a bit of a giggle, type down anything silly we could think of and flitter off to run in the sprinklers or that we take your query seriously, do serious research and give you a serious answer? We do the latter. Well, usually. Sometimes we slip into fecitiousness and the occasional hiccup of sarcasm ;o)
Devon
1
However, I'm getting a tad impatient with the reaction to precisely what you sought. You clearly had some instinctive concern about changing the name willy-nilly like that and definitely I think it would be wrong and in response to your query, said so. If you don't like that, oh well.
And now you want un-serious. Did you come here and post expecting that we would have a bit of a giggle, type down anything silly we could think of and flitter off to run in the sprinklers or that we take your query seriously, do serious research and give you a serious answer? We do the latter. Well, usually. Sometimes we slip into fecitiousness and the occasional hiccup of sarcasm ;o)
No, I sure was lookin for a serious answer, but i think there was no need for attacking me. Thats all. See other replys.
Oh dear, still excited aren't we. Okay, there are major differences between families adapting to new climes, new languages, new environs and the rape and plunder of smaller, 'lesser' cultures and languages by those who care not a whit for how the people thus affronted might feel on the matter. Yes, language changes over time. No, it doesn't need rank amateurs whipping it on.
I've got no problem with you asking the question which is why I bothered to answered it correctly. I can even patiently tell you that while the close Annwn/Annwfn does indeed mean, as posted, 'the underworld, hell' that equally close is Annwyl which means 'beloved, dear' and if it would help, can tell you how to pronounce them. I'll also nicely tidy up your sentiments into...
Thank you, but I dont think we are going to agree on this one and we dont have to.
There is no shame in not knowing, there is only shame in not finding out. - Chinese proverb
A motto I agree with wholeheartedly
As I see, you quote often. Nice.
In the Wyclef topic, you critisize Ja9, but youre actually doing the same 'mistake' yourself..
1
Ava, that wasn't an attack, it was an answer.
I don't quote often - I've done it less in the entire history of my time on this board than you've cut and pasted in this solitary string. Perhaps a look through the archives would help you catch on to that.
It might also help for you to look up that Ja9 posted the same exact question about 6 different times with various names - a no-no if you read the site rules. He/She was answered several times and yet more board-littering posts continued to crop up. That particular quote is one my hard drive in that exact format from a web-page worksheet and so it was nothing to put it in there. I personally got the feeling that it was a mistake but you never know with multiple-personalities and it was a funny way of saying 'stop reposting, you're not going to get any better replies this way'. Again, perhaps getting to know the place first would help you level appropriate criticisms.
And actually, it's a hot day here and when I posted the last time I laughed and said to Nico 'she's one of those - she'll have to answer no matter what' and went off for a nice drive, ice cream, arranged my pre-natal, finished off the Anglo-Saxon section (hooray!), sent off the grocery order and came back and sure enough - there was your cut-n-paste reply. It was good for a laugh but yes, no matter what you reply, we're going to strongly disagree. I approach this as an intellectual, fun forum where the erudition bar is slightly higher than on the rest of the net and strong opinions, if they're backed up and reasonably expressed are part of the learned atmosphere. As that is terribly offensive to you, we'll disagree. But whatever time I'm wasting here in responding to you, just remember, you're making the same 'mistake' yourself with every inevitable reply ;o)
Devon
I don't quote often - I've done it less in the entire history of my time on this board than you've cut and pasted in this solitary string. Perhaps a look through the archives would help you catch on to that.
It might also help for you to look up that Ja9 posted the same exact question about 6 different times with various names - a no-no if you read the site rules. He/She was answered several times and yet more board-littering posts continued to crop up. That particular quote is one my hard drive in that exact format from a web-page worksheet and so it was nothing to put it in there. I personally got the feeling that it was a mistake but you never know with multiple-personalities and it was a funny way of saying 'stop reposting, you're not going to get any better replies this way'. Again, perhaps getting to know the place first would help you level appropriate criticisms.
And actually, it's a hot day here and when I posted the last time I laughed and said to Nico 'she's one of those - she'll have to answer no matter what' and went off for a nice drive, ice cream, arranged my pre-natal, finished off the Anglo-Saxon section (hooray!), sent off the grocery order and came back and sure enough - there was your cut-n-paste reply. It was good for a laugh but yes, no matter what you reply, we're going to strongly disagree. I approach this as an intellectual, fun forum where the erudition bar is slightly higher than on the rest of the net and strong opinions, if they're backed up and reasonably expressed are part of the learned atmosphere. As that is terribly offensive to you, we'll disagree. But whatever time I'm wasting here in responding to you, just remember, you're making the same 'mistake' yourself with every inevitable reply ;o)
Devon
1
I know what Ja9 did, I wasnt talkin about him/her at all.
I was talkin about you and your quote wich was:
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Meaning, even if Ja9 posted 6 times, you posted more then once as well, you were doing the same thing Ja9 did a couple of times and expected different results. Thats why. Oh and Im not 'one of those' cause I wouldnt reply if youd understand me.
I never said the forum or the members are terribly offensive to me.
I dont disagree about that with you. I disagree with you about the Erin/Aryn topic. See now why I have to reply? And replying just because I have to have the last word no matter what... def not true.
But to call it a mistake.
I was talkin about you and your quote wich was:
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Meaning, even if Ja9 posted 6 times, you posted more then once as well, you were doing the same thing Ja9 did a couple of times and expected different results. Thats why. Oh and Im not 'one of those' cause I wouldnt reply if youd understand me.
I never said the forum or the members are terribly offensive to me.
I dont disagree about that with you. I disagree with you about the Erin/Aryn topic. See now why I have to reply? And replying just because I have to have the last word no matter what... def not true.
But to call it a mistake.
1
Hi Ava,
You're still missing the point about Devon's repeated replies to Ja9 - it's called a joke. Her repetition was funny because it was pointing out Ja9's repetition. Get it?!
Yes, I'm being sarcastic to you. I've been watching this thread, and I'm getting tired of your whinging. Devon gave her honest (although forthright) opinion in her reply to your original post - there was no need for you to take it personally and attack Devon in response.
As for us all taking this too seriously - well, duh! This is a serious site and most of the people who post on this board are scholarly people, whether formally or informally, so if you ask a question you'll get a serious answer. If you want candyfloss, go elsewhere.
Please don't "go off" at me the way you have at Devon - strange as it may seem to you, I'm trying to help you here. I'm sure you're a very nice, friendly person, but you're coming across as an immature whiner. If that bothers you, you might want to do something about it! If you re-read Devon's original post with an objective eye, you'll see that while her opinion might have been a bit strongly stated, it was still only her opinion and was in direct answer to your query. No-one will think any the less of you for just dropping the subject - but they will think much less of you for continuing in your current vein.
Christine
You're still missing the point about Devon's repeated replies to Ja9 - it's called a joke. Her repetition was funny because it was pointing out Ja9's repetition. Get it?!
Yes, I'm being sarcastic to you. I've been watching this thread, and I'm getting tired of your whinging. Devon gave her honest (although forthright) opinion in her reply to your original post - there was no need for you to take it personally and attack Devon in response.
As for us all taking this too seriously - well, duh! This is a serious site and most of the people who post on this board are scholarly people, whether formally or informally, so if you ask a question you'll get a serious answer. If you want candyfloss, go elsewhere.
Please don't "go off" at me the way you have at Devon - strange as it may seem to you, I'm trying to help you here. I'm sure you're a very nice, friendly person, but you're coming across as an immature whiner. If that bothers you, you might want to do something about it! If you re-read Devon's original post with an objective eye, you'll see that while her opinion might have been a bit strongly stated, it was still only her opinion and was in direct answer to your query. No-one will think any the less of you for just dropping the subject - but they will think much less of you for continuing in your current vein.
Christine
1
"go off"? Well I guess the problem is that you guys missed the point about Devon & Ja9, cause I made a joke too.
1