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Archivesthe name molly -origins
hello,
i was searching for some history behind the name molly and i found some really cool things that haven't been mentioned before. i would like to see if there may be any validity to what i have found.
the name molly is commonly said to have come as a short form of the name mary, originally used as maeili, used as a phrase in ireland for "wished for child". yet, what i have also found is that maeili in irish is used to describe the process of shaving one's head for a spiritual practice, such as a monk would do. And also, mael means in irish "devotee, or bald devotee". this is of interest because the name mary is said to have not been used in ireland until 17th century because it was viewed as being to holy. perhaps the use of maeili in ireland came about before the use of mary. mael and maeili, being two possible versions of this name, considered a name to mean one who is devoted. when mary as a name was introduced it may have been seen still as too sacred a name by some thus a nickname was often used in it's place. mael or maeili meaning one who is devoted to god or spirit, etc being a good nickname for the holy name mary, as it may have been one of ireland's sacred names before the introduction of the name mary. what do you think? this would make the name molly as a given name a name with a definition independent of the definition of the name mary.
perhaps the phrase "wished for child" came about because of the name's assosciation with devotion? but that is just a wild guess.
i was searching for some history behind the name molly and i found some really cool things that haven't been mentioned before. i would like to see if there may be any validity to what i have found.
the name molly is commonly said to have come as a short form of the name mary, originally used as maeili, used as a phrase in ireland for "wished for child". yet, what i have also found is that maeili in irish is used to describe the process of shaving one's head for a spiritual practice, such as a monk would do. And also, mael means in irish "devotee, or bald devotee". this is of interest because the name mary is said to have not been used in ireland until 17th century because it was viewed as being to holy. perhaps the use of maeili in ireland came about before the use of mary. mael and maeili, being two possible versions of this name, considered a name to mean one who is devoted. when mary as a name was introduced it may have been seen still as too sacred a name by some thus a nickname was often used in it's place. mael or maeili meaning one who is devoted to god or spirit, etc being a good nickname for the holy name mary, as it may have been one of ireland's sacred names before the introduction of the name mary. what do you think? this would make the name molly as a given name a name with a definition independent of the definition of the name mary.
perhaps the phrase "wished for child" came about because of the name's assosciation with devotion? but that is just a wild guess.
This message was edited 9/13/2009, 8:29 AM
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Replies
Mael does mean bald and by extension someone with a tonsure, a religious devotee or disciple, and yes the Gaels did use Mael as a prefix to saints names so e.g. instead of giving their child the potentially blasphemous name of Colm or Columba, they called him Malcolm, i.e. devotee of Columba.
However I can't think of any female names which have this prefix, and as far as I know a 'bald' devotee could only be male - nuns doen't have tonsures. I find it unlikely that the Irish would have associated the female name Molly with Mael.
But that's just my opinion I'm in no way an expert.
However I can't think of any female names which have this prefix, and as far as I know a 'bald' devotee could only be male - nuns doen't have tonsures. I find it unlikely that the Irish would have associated the female name Molly with Mael.
But that's just my opinion I'm in no way an expert.
This message was edited 9/14/2009, 12:31 PM
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I agree - I can't think of any female name with the prefix Mael/Maol.
Actually now that I think of it there is a journalist called Maol Muire Tynan - but she's the only woman I can think of.
Actually now that I think of it there is a journalist called Maol Muire Tynan - but she's the only woman I can think of.
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According to Ó Corráin & Maguire, Maol Mhuire (earlier Máel Muire) is the only case of compound with Máel/Maol name that was used for boys and for girls ("Máel Muire occurs frequently as a girl's name.", p. 130). Since they are exhaustive with their data and mark as "m and f." or "f and m." any name documented in both genders, even a single time, if the rest of Máel/Maol names are marked as "m.", that is that they were exclusively masculine and Máel Muire/Maol Mhuire is an exception.
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so mael and maol are versions of the same word/name? interesting.....so is mhuire a version of mary? and then would mael mhuire mean devotee of mary or follower of mary?
i found that there is a celtic folk tale called maol a chliobain about a girl named maol. it was rewritten and the girl's name was changed to Molly, but to me this is just a coincidence. a non gaelic australian man rewrote the story. that is all that i found about the name maol.
This is a really great site! thanks for the wealth of knowledge and the help.
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ok...yes, so i found that mhuire and muire are versions of mary. so if mael mhuire and maol mhuire are common names in ireland meaning devotee of mary, maybe instead of calling a woman with this name by maol mhuire, they developed a nickname for her. and that's how the molly came about as being linked with the name mary.
....a combination of the two words mael and mhuire? sounding like molly... uh....maybe? so could molly possibly mean either follower/disciple of mary of just plain disciple? because it is said often on some sites that molly is linked with the name maeili, which is linked to mael, meaning disciple.
also in irish "mol" ,means to praise and in welsh "moli" means to praise. any possible connections to the name maol, or molly? in the irish language is the word mol related to word maol? like is it a different tense of the same word? because i know that to praise can be a part of what it is to be a disciple.
....a combination of the two words mael and mhuire? sounding like molly... uh....maybe? so could molly possibly mean either follower/disciple of mary of just plain disciple? because it is said often on some sites that molly is linked with the name maeili, which is linked to mael, meaning disciple.
also in irish "mol" ,means to praise and in welsh "moli" means to praise. any possible connections to the name maol, or molly? in the irish language is the word mol related to word maol? like is it a different tense of the same word? because i know that to praise can be a part of what it is to be a disciple.
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Molly is a nickname for Mary because in the Middle Ages some names that had Rs were changed to another consonant for nicknames because the Anglo-Saxons couldn't pronounce Rs very well.
This is how we get Molly from Mary, as well as Sally from Sarah, Hal from Harry, Dolly from Dorothy, Bob from Robert, Dick from Richard, etc.
This is how we get Molly from Mary, as well as Sally from Sarah, Hal from Harry, Dolly from Dorothy, Bob from Robert, Dick from Richard, etc.
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ok. that makes sense. molly is an english name then. i thought it was irish. it's really confusing. there is alot of confusion about the name molly out there on the web. thanks again for all of the help.
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I have no idea whether or not Molly can be connected with Mael. Someone who is an expert on medieval Irish names would have to comment.
But I think you are confused about the "wished for child" interpretation. I do not think that Mary or Molly ever were used in Ireland as part of a phrase with that meaning. "Wished for child" is one of the theories on what Miriam, the Old Testament name Mary is derived from, might have meant in ancient Hebrew. And it is one of the more recent ideas put forth by scholars of ancient Hebrew. The "sea of bitterness" idea mentioned on this site is probably the oldest interpretation, though the "sea" part of that may come from confusing it with the Latin word for sea, mare. I don't think Christians would have interpreted Mary or Miriam as "wished for child" in the 17th century or before.
In any event, the interpretation of "wished for child" certainly has nothing to do with any association of Mary with "devotion" in Ireland.
But I think you are confused about the "wished for child" interpretation. I do not think that Mary or Molly ever were used in Ireland as part of a phrase with that meaning. "Wished for child" is one of the theories on what Miriam, the Old Testament name Mary is derived from, might have meant in ancient Hebrew. And it is one of the more recent ideas put forth by scholars of ancient Hebrew. The "sea of bitterness" idea mentioned on this site is probably the oldest interpretation, though the "sea" part of that may come from confusing it with the Latin word for sea, mare. I don't think Christians would have interpreted Mary or Miriam as "wished for child" in the 17th century or before.
In any event, the interpretation of "wished for child" certainly has nothing to do with any association of Mary with "devotion" in Ireland.
This message was edited 9/14/2009, 5:31 AM
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that is very interesting that you say that Molly or Maeili has nothing to do with "wished for child"! Because in all of the irish language resources i was unable to find this meaning either! I was beginning to wonder myself if this was true, feeling that it was being confused with a phrase associated with the name Mary. Thank you for confirming this.
There happens to be alot of websites posting the name Molly's correlation with the name Maeli and the "wished for child" phrase. Saying that in Gaelic this is what Maeili means.
These are all unscholarly sites, however, and I do not believe any are websites from the country of Ireland, where one would truly understand Gaelic.
i am still curious about the name molly and it's relationship with the name maeili/mael, if any?
thank you again.
There happens to be alot of websites posting the name Molly's correlation with the name Maeli and the "wished for child" phrase. Saying that in Gaelic this is what Maeili means.
These are all unscholarly sites, however, and I do not believe any are websites from the country of Ireland, where one would truly understand Gaelic.
i am still curious about the name molly and it's relationship with the name maeili/mael, if any?
thank you again.
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guess what i found! that mael as a name was actually used before the name mary in ireland. the high king of ireland in the time period of around 800- 860 was named mael sechnaill. so if maeili and mael are related names then this upports that the name molly has a meaning other than mary.
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