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ArchivesIrish tradition of middle names? + Chinese name question
I'm curious to know if it is common in Irleand to use the middle name as 'first' name. So far I've met an Anne Stephanie (Stephanie), Mary Yvonne (Yvonne) and Patrick Paul (Paul) who all go by their middle name. I was thinking that the first name is a saint's name and a Catholic tradition but this is just a guess.
TIA
ETA:
I would also like to know more about Chinese names. It is normal for Chinese people to have a Western name and I wonder if it's common among Westerners in China to take a Chinese name.
I read that names with two syllables are the most common for Chinese names and it says those syllables can be any of the thousands of Chinese characters so the combinations are almost limitless.
The database lists very few names so my second question is if anyone know of a Chinese (feminine) name meaning free and if one in theory could use just any sound/word one likes from from the Chinese language as a name.
_______________________________________________________________
C'est beaucoup moins inquiétant de parler du mauvais temps
En chantant
Et c'est tellement plus mignon de se faire traiter de con
En chanson.
La vie c'est plus marrant, c'est moins désespérant en chantant.
TIA
ETA:
I would also like to know more about Chinese names. It is normal for Chinese people to have a Western name and I wonder if it's common among Westerners in China to take a Chinese name.
I read that names with two syllables are the most common for Chinese names and it says those syllables can be any of the thousands of Chinese characters so the combinations are almost limitless.
The database lists very few names so my second question is if anyone know of a Chinese (feminine) name meaning free and if one in theory could use just any sound/word one likes from from the Chinese language as a name.
_______________________________________________________________
C'est beaucoup moins inquiétant de parler du mauvais temps
En chantant
Et c'est tellement plus mignon de se faire traiter de con
En chanson.
La vie c'est plus marrant, c'est moins désespérant en chantant.
This message was edited 9/25/2008, 7:15 AM
1
Replies
Chinese person here! Many of my relatives who were born/raised in China or Taiwan have self-selected Western names, so it's not too uncommon to see that. I'm not so sure about the other way around, though. I have some non-Chinese friends who've studied abroad in Chinese-speaking regions, but I don't think they ended up adopting a Chinese name.
The Chinese word for "free"—as in being liberated or independent, which I'm guessing is what you mean?—is 自由 (zìyóu). (I don't think it's commonly used as an actual name, but do as you wish with it.) Also, two-syllable names aren't necessarily random. Most names have auspicious or positive meanings based on the characters chosen, so you wouldn't just throw any two characters together. Theoretically, the possibilities are endless if you disregard this custom.
The Chinese word for "free"—as in being liberated or independent, which I'm guessing is what you mean?—is 自由 (zìyóu). (I don't think it's commonly used as an actual name, but do as you wish with it.) Also, two-syllable names aren't necessarily random. Most names have auspicious or positive meanings based on the characters chosen, so you wouldn't just throw any two characters together. Theoretically, the possibilities are endless if you disregard this custom.
This message was edited 3/29/2020, 12:26 PM
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It is my experience, with a substantial amount of research, that Irish children were not endowed with middle names while in Ireland, but a lot of children of immigrants to America had them provided once here. Sometimes, even if the child was born without one in Ireland, they ended up with one after living in America. No baptismal records that I've seen on the site of the National Library of Ireland have middle names. It would be good if someone who's actually IN Ireland would respond to this question so, for now, you'll have to rely on my research for a possible answer. I have many examples in my family of what I've described above.
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Short answer after **.
I wouldn't say it's particularly common or uncommon for people to use their middle names in Ireland - it would be more common in people over 35 I think for reasons I'll explain. There is no set in stone tradition/rule/law(these days at least) that you name your children a saint's name but it was the case until several years ago that a priest could refuse to baptise a child without a saint's name - the last time I heard of this happening was about 17 years ago and it caused quite a stir because it was so unusual.(the name was Sammie-Jo). It's significant that the names you mention are traditional and saint's names and that the female middle names,at least, are names that have only been used here fairly recently(1960s).
Allow me to give a brief history of Irish naming practises as I see them. Until recently(say the 50s) there was a very limited pool of names to draw from: Anne, Mary, Elizabeth, Brigid, Johanna, Ellen, Catherine, Rose, John, James, Michael, Matthew, Thomas, Patrick, William, etc. Irish names like Siobhan and Eamon were very,very rare till the start of the 20th century though names like Liam and Seamus would have been used as nicknames. Really it was unusual for families to deviate from a defined pool of family names. My grandfather was John, his father was Thomas, his grandfather James and except for his great-grandfather all his direct male descendents were called John right back to the late 16th century.
You would name your first son after the father's father, the first daughter after the father's mother, the next two after the mother's parents, the nest two after yourself and then after that a favourite sibling/one who died/became a priest or a nun/emigrated. My father's family is a perfect example of this - three daughters - one named for the two grannies and the mother, 6 brothers named for the two grandfathers and the father and for two uncles. My grandmother then "ran out of ideas" and called her last son after the saint's day he was born on(quite a common practice).
I wouldn't say it's particularly common or uncommon for people to use their middle names in Ireland - it would be more common in people over 35 I think for reasons I'll explain. There is no set in stone tradition/rule/law(these days at least) that you name your children a saint's name but it was the case until several years ago that a priest could refuse to baptise a child without a saint's name - the last time I heard of this happening was about 17 years ago and it caused quite a stir because it was so unusual.(the name was Sammie-Jo). It's significant that the names you mention are traditional and saint's names and that the female middle names,at least, are names that have only been used here fairly recently(1960s).
Allow me to give a brief history of Irish naming practises as I see them. Until recently(say the 50s) there was a very limited pool of names to draw from: Anne, Mary, Elizabeth, Brigid, Johanna, Ellen, Catherine, Rose, John, James, Michael, Matthew, Thomas, Patrick, William, etc. Irish names like Siobhan and Eamon were very,very rare till the start of the 20th century though names like Liam and Seamus would have been used as nicknames. Really it was unusual for families to deviate from a defined pool of family names. My grandfather was John, his father was Thomas, his grandfather James and except for his great-grandfather all his direct male descendents were called John right back to the late 16th century.
You would name your first son after the father's father, the first daughter after the father's mother, the next two after the mother's parents, the nest two after yourself and then after that a favourite sibling/one who died/became a priest or a nun/emigrated. My father's family is a perfect example of this - three daughters - one named for the two grannies and the mother, 6 brothers named for the two grandfathers and the father and for two uncles. My grandmother then "ran out of ideas" and called her last son after the saint's day he was born on(quite a common practice).
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Part answer
Yes, it's common for Chinese to also have an "English name" as they call it. No, foreigners in China usually don't take on a Chinese name (probably because they don't communicate in Chinese anyway).
I've asked Chinese people about what their names means and sometimes I did get back "Nothing, it's just my name", but the way I got it so far, is that separate characters may have a meaning but together they don't necessarily have a meaning, like normal words that are a combination of of two characters do have a special meaning in that combination.
Yes, it's common for Chinese to also have an "English name" as they call it. No, foreigners in China usually don't take on a Chinese name (probably because they don't communicate in Chinese anyway).
I've asked Chinese people about what their names means and sometimes I did get back "Nothing, it's just my name", but the way I got it so far, is that separate characters may have a meaning but together they don't necessarily have a meaning, like normal words that are a combination of of two characters do have a special meaning in that combination.
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I know that in China the meaning of a name is very important. So you wouldn't just combine two random characters to name your baby, you would make sure they'd have a good meaning and that they'd sound nice together. I think there are several characters that sound the same but mean something different written down so you need to choose the right character for the sound as well. I guess the combinations are almost limitless but of course you wouldn't use any character. I mean you wouldn't name it "stupid donkey" or something. You could however combine those with good meanings.
I think for boys names meaning "career", "success" etc are popular and for girls "beauty", "gentle", "flower", "sweet" etc
I think Chinese students choose an English name in school, in English class. At least several teachers I know let their students choose one or choose them for the student.
I know several Korean students who chose an English name. It was quite interesting I asked them and the names of the Korean boys were Tiger, Kelly, Hitch and Teddy. I think they choose "cool" names or names of celebrities (Tiger Woods, Kelly Slater, Hitch the Date Doctor, Teddy Bear? hehe). The girls were Lily, Rachel, Mechelle (I bet she didn't know how to spell Michelle), Kate, Jennifer and Amy. Amy and Lily are especially common among Korean students. You should have seen Tiger. When he said "Hi, my name is Tiger" my best friend burst out laughing. It was too funny on him, he was very skinny and short and the way he said it was just too funny.
I think for boys names meaning "career", "success" etc are popular and for girls "beauty", "gentle", "flower", "sweet" etc
I think Chinese students choose an English name in school, in English class. At least several teachers I know let their students choose one or choose them for the student.
I know several Korean students who chose an English name. It was quite interesting I asked them and the names of the Korean boys were Tiger, Kelly, Hitch and Teddy. I think they choose "cool" names or names of celebrities (Tiger Woods, Kelly Slater, Hitch the Date Doctor, Teddy Bear? hehe). The girls were Lily, Rachel, Mechelle (I bet she didn't know how to spell Michelle), Kate, Jennifer and Amy. Amy and Lily are especially common among Korean students. You should have seen Tiger. When he said "Hi, my name is Tiger" my best friend burst out laughing. It was too funny on him, he was very skinny and short and the way he said it was just too funny.
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