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ArchivesRe: About Ada
in reply to a message by Damis
You have to look as well at the context in which the name was given. I do not doubt that the name existed in Greece, but I do doubt that the parents in the US who gave this name in the early 20th century (when it was most popular) knew or cared about that--they most likely saw it as a short form of Adelaide. Names come from multiple sources.
(Would you claim that Naomi isn't a Japanese name because it was used millennia ago in Israel?)
(Would you claim that Naomi isn't a Japanese name because it was used millennia ago in Israel?)
This message was edited 10/13/2005, 5:41 AM
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Replies
Well if you pronounce it nay-O-mee, you're right!
English Naomi is etymologically different to Japanese Naomi.
Not only that they are also pronounced differently.
English Naomi: nay-O-mee
Japanese Naomi: na-oh-mi (as in 'na' at the end of banana, 'oh' as in of and 'mi' as in me but 'ee' is cut short).
But don't take your lack of knowledge to heart. In Japan they thought I had to be part Japanese because Naomi IS Japanese.
My 45 PPs - names in profile
English Naomi is etymologically different to Japanese Naomi.
Not only that they are also pronounced differently.
English Naomi: nay-O-mee
Japanese Naomi: na-oh-mi (as in 'na' at the end of banana, 'oh' as in of and 'mi' as in me but 'ee' is cut short).
But don't take your lack of knowledge to heart. In Japan they thought I had to be part Japanese because Naomi IS Japanese.
My 45 PPs - names in profile
This message was edited 10/15/2005, 12:33 AM
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Up to a point I understand that this might be counter-intuitive. If a name is Hebrew, how can it be Japanese?
But if you think about it: In what kind of funny world would a name be "reserved" for all times by the first people that comes up with it? E.g. in the following way: Around the year 1000 AD the Japanese ask the world "We would like to coin a Japanese name called Naomi. Is this ok?" and then the Hebrew-speaking folks object and say "No, you can't, we have the exclusive rights to this name since 1000 BC"...
Anyway, of course there is a Japanese name Naomi, in a certain way even around a dozen such names because there are several kanji combinations in use for writing the Japanese Naomi, each with a different meaning.
The most frequent writing that I could find is:
直美
with the following two kanji:
直 straightaway; honesty; frankness; fix; repair
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=76f4
美 beauty; beautiful
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=7f8e
And the Japanese themselves seem to know quite well that the Hebrew Naomi and their Naomi are two different things because they don't use kanji to write the name of Naomi Campbell, but katakana:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ナオミ・キャンベル;
Rene www.AboutNames.ch
But if you think about it: In what kind of funny world would a name be "reserved" for all times by the first people that comes up with it? E.g. in the following way: Around the year 1000 AD the Japanese ask the world "We would like to coin a Japanese name called Naomi. Is this ok?" and then the Hebrew-speaking folks object and say "No, you can't, we have the exclusive rights to this name since 1000 BC"...
Anyway, of course there is a Japanese name Naomi, in a certain way even around a dozen such names because there are several kanji combinations in use for writing the Japanese Naomi, each with a different meaning.
The most frequent writing that I could find is:
直美
with the following two kanji:
直 straightaway; honesty; frankness; fix; repair
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=76f4
美 beauty; beautiful
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=7f8e
And the Japanese themselves seem to know quite well that the Hebrew Naomi and their Naomi are two different things because they don't use kanji to write the name of Naomi Campbell, but katakana:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ナオミ・キャンベル;
Rene www.AboutNames.ch
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Look it up. It is.
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Agree . . .
AY-da may well have been a set of syllables used as a name in Ancient Greece, but that doesn't mean that when parents in late Victorian English-speaking countries developed a passion for a name using those same syllables it necessarily came from the same source. A common Germanic-origin name is a far more likely origin for an English name than is an obscure Ancient Greek name.
♦ Chrisell ♦
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - J.R.R. Tolkien.
AY-da may well have been a set of syllables used as a name in Ancient Greece, but that doesn't mean that when parents in late Victorian English-speaking countries developed a passion for a name using those same syllables it necessarily came from the same source. A common Germanic-origin name is a far more likely origin for an English name than is an obscure Ancient Greek name.
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - J.R.R. Tolkien.
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Agree but...
Certainly yes, but its also a fact that many Greek names, together with the Greek alphabet and language, have "travelled" because of the Romans all over Europe since the ancient times.
And of'course the formation of Greek names is far away more complicated than "a set of syllabes", as it can be in other languages...! (See the "Lexicon of the Greek Personal Names" by the British Academy, www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk )
PS Who said Ayda anyway?
Certainly yes, but its also a fact that many Greek names, together with the Greek alphabet and language, have "travelled" because of the Romans all over Europe since the ancient times.
And of'course the formation of Greek names is far away more complicated than "a set of syllabes", as it can be in other languages...! (See the "Lexicon of the Greek Personal Names" by the British Academy, www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk )
PS Who said Ayda anyway?
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Yes, I agree that Greek names travelled all over Europe, but the names that travelled were by and large those well-known from mythology or history. I studied Greek Mythology for one year and Greek Archaeology/Art and Architecture for onr year, and I never heard of an Ada, so it seems she was an obscure character whose name might not have the same travelling power as, say, Cassandra or Alexander.
I didn't mean quite what you thought with the "set of syllables" thing - all names are sets of syllables, whether those syllables have independent meanings or not. What I meant was that the two syllables 'ay' and 'da' are found in most languages, so it's not surprising that the combination of the two as a feminine name is found in more than one language.
I didn't say anything about Ayda - AY-da is the phonetic transcription of the pronunciation of Ada.
I didn't mean quite what you thought with the "set of syllables" thing - all names are sets of syllables, whether those syllables have independent meanings or not. What I meant was that the two syllables 'ay' and 'da' are found in most languages, so it's not surprising that the combination of the two as a feminine name is found in more than one language.
I didn't say anything about Ayda - AY-da is the phonetic transcription of the pronunciation of Ada.
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Thanks for the reply.
I hope you understand that I don't mean that any name that sounds like a Greek name, it has actually came from Greek. I would be at least silly if I do that! All I want to do is think and search and ask people's opinion about different options on the etymology. Thats why I started my first post as: "Could ADA not be a short for ADELAIDE?" and not as: "ADA is a short for ADELAIDE"!
Anyway, thats what is all about, find the truth through dialogue, sensible thinking and research, isnt it? :0)
I hope you understand that I don't mean that any name that sounds like a Greek name, it has actually came from Greek. I would be at least silly if I do that! All I want to do is think and search and ask people's opinion about different options on the etymology. Thats why I started my first post as: "Could ADA not be a short for ADELAIDE?" and not as: "ADA is a short for ADELAIDE"!
Anyway, thats what is all about, find the truth through dialogue, sensible thinking and research, isnt it? :0)
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I agree that both meanings should be placed in.
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