Message: "Re: ISABEL once again"

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Re: ISABEL once again

by Andy ;—) (guest)

6/21/2005, 6:18 AM

This is very interesting! But why would anybody mistake the EL part for the (masculine) article with a feminine name? Didn't they care about genders?

Can you tell us, where you got those ancient forms of Elisabeth from? Tanks!

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- Lumia +4

6/21/2005, 11:27 AM

Elisabet is a Hebrew name and in Spain, in general, names coming from the Old Testament has not been used until 20th century, then the name and its variants could be not clear with respect to gender for the people. Moreover, in the variant Elisabel, the ending is -EL, a typical ending of masculine Biblical names (Daniel, Ismael, Ezequiel, etc.).
In Catalan, there is an ancient variant Isabet (from Elisabet), made in the same way and for the same reasons.

Regarding the sources of ancient forms, they are attested in Repertori d'Antropònims Catalans (RAC), by Jordi BOLÒS and Josep MORAN (Repertoris de la Secció Filològica, II. Institut d'Estudis Catalans. Barcelona, 1994). And they are seen too (whith a fantastic philologycal explanation of the evolution and history of Isabel)in Diccionario de nombres propios by Roberto FAURE (Espasa Calpe. Madrid, 2002).

Same explanation for etymology and history is given in Los nombres de pila españoles by Consuelo GARCÍA GALLARÍN (Ediciones del Prado. Madrid, 1998); Diccionario dos nomes galegos by Xesús FERRO et al. (Ir Indo. Vigo, 1998); and Dictionnaire des prénoms by Chantal TANET and Tristan HORDÉ (Larousse. Paris, 2000).

Lumia
http://onomastica.mailcatala.com

This message was edited 6/21/2005, 11:32 AM

- Andy ;—) (guest)

6/22/2005, 10:11 PM

Again this is very interesting. I realise now, that I have little idea of naming traditions in Spain. Almost no Old Testament names before the 20th century – I guess this is due to the fact that Spain is a Catholic country. You won’t find many OT names in Germany either before the 19th cent., but a couple did come into use like Lea, Rebecca or Samuel in the 16th cent. The Reformers pushed them into the public as an opposition to Saints’ names.
I found this in an online dictionary:
isabelino,-a adjetivo Elizabethan, of the Spanish Renaissance
So ISABEL must have long been the Spanish form of Elizabeth/Elisabeth, and I don’t see, how ISEBEL should come in with this.

Thank you also for the books you list.

- Miss Claire +2

6/21/2005, 4:41 PM

In fact Elisabet is a European form of the Hebrew name Elisheva, unless it has a Phoenician origin. :)

~~ Claire ~~

My ! are Alia, Eidel, Enola, Israel, Dudel, Yuri, Lina, Lorelei, Leilani, Owen, Julian, Glorinda, Mirinda
My ? are Hillel, Meshullam, Johnny, Ginny, Cordelia, Fiammetta, Yocheved
My ~ are Tehila, Tilda, Hailey, Gillian, Huldah
My / are Aglaia and July

- Lumia +1

6/21/2005, 11:50 PM

When I say "Elisabet is a Hebrew name" obviously this means that Elisabet is a name of Hebrew origin, not the original Hebrew form of the name. In an anthroponymic or philological context, Hebrew, Aramaic, Germanic, Latin or Greek (among others) as adjectivation of "name" means "of Hebrew/Aramaic/Germanic/Latin/Greek origin", not "Hebrew/etc. form".

For example, in BtN:"Greek names include Peter, Luke and Stephen, while Paul and Mark are Latin." And this doesn't mean that Stephen is the Greek form or Mark the Latin form.

Lumia
http://onomastica.mailcatala.com

This message was edited 6/21/2005, 11:53 PM

- Miss Claire

6/22/2005, 3:20 PM

Ah ok, maybe it's because it's not like this in French :)

~~ Claire ~~

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