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ArchivesFor Merriment, continued discussion of Baxter
"The reference is Reaney and Wilson, Dictionary of English Surnames, 1995 (most recent so far as I know). See under Baxter."
While I was over in England these past few days I picked up the 1997, revised edition of Reaney and Wilson's *Dictionary of English Surnames* at Waterstones, and checked out the entry for Baxter.
The authors definitively state that the surname is derived from the Old English "baecestre", being the feminine form of "baecere", meaning "baker."
Granted, the entry also states that the name "is used chiefly of men" and that "only two examples have been noted with a woman's christian name" (which would seem obvious if what the authors are referring to is the fact that not many English parents in the past would have been likely to christian their little girls "Baxter").
However, I didn't find any reference to the origin of the surname itself having been based on dialect (as you mentioned in your earlier posting) rather than on the possibility that today's bearers of that occupational surname may have had a female ancestor who independently supported herself as a baker.
-- Nanaea
While I was over in England these past few days I picked up the 1997, revised edition of Reaney and Wilson's *Dictionary of English Surnames* at Waterstones, and checked out the entry for Baxter.
The authors definitively state that the surname is derived from the Old English "baecestre", being the feminine form of "baecere", meaning "baker."
Granted, the entry also states that the name "is used chiefly of men" and that "only two examples have been noted with a woman's christian name" (which would seem obvious if what the authors are referring to is the fact that not many English parents in the past would have been likely to christian their little girls "Baxter").
However, I didn't find any reference to the origin of the surname itself having been based on dialect (as you mentioned in your earlier posting) rather than on the possibility that today's bearers of that occupational surname may have had a female ancestor who independently supported herself as a baker.
-- Nanaea
1
Replies
Yup, that's what it says...
Indeed, I was never debating that Baecestere is a Old English feminine form, just that as a Medieval English occupational name it is not necessarily or even usually female.
Inherited surnames are fairly rare 1100-1300 (e.g. John (the miller)Miller's son may be Henry Johnson or Henry Mill(er(s)) (but probably only sometimes and depending on whom he's talking to :)), but his grandson is more likely to be John Harries) which is why the conclusion is that although some of these men may be John Baxter son of Margaret the Baxter, the rest are probably John Baxter the Baxter.
Trades were more inheritable than surnames, and this probably contributed to the 'de-feminization' of Baxter - e.g. John Baxter may be both the son of Margaret Baxter AND John the Baxter himself.
Either I came across the dialect info elsewhere, or I made it up :)
I'm fairly sure I've read something recent on this though.
I'm away this weekend, but if I remember I'll check with a names scholar I know (he's always been up for random queries in the past) and get back to you. Won't be before next week though.
Did you buy a copy of DESN? It has its errors, but the range and depth of info on names is quite impressive.
I've been flicking through it again this past week, and the number of surnames that derive from women's names is huge...
Indeed, I was never debating that Baecestere is a Old English feminine form, just that as a Medieval English occupational name it is not necessarily or even usually female.
Inherited surnames are fairly rare 1100-1300 (e.g. John (the miller)Miller's son may be Henry Johnson or Henry Mill(er(s)) (but probably only sometimes and depending on whom he's talking to :)), but his grandson is more likely to be John Harries) which is why the conclusion is that although some of these men may be John Baxter son of Margaret the Baxter, the rest are probably John Baxter the Baxter.
Trades were more inheritable than surnames, and this probably contributed to the 'de-feminization' of Baxter - e.g. John Baxter may be both the son of Margaret Baxter AND John the Baxter himself.
Either I came across the dialect info elsewhere, or I made it up :)
I'm fairly sure I've read something recent on this though.
I'm away this weekend, but if I remember I'll check with a names scholar I know (he's always been up for random queries in the past) and get back to you. Won't be before next week though.
Did you buy a copy of DESN? It has its errors, but the range and depth of info on names is quite impressive.
I've been flicking through it again this past week, and the number of surnames that derive from women's names is huge...
1
Ah, I see
"Trades were more inheritable than surnames, and this probably contributed to the 'de-feminization' of Baxter…"
Well, that would explain the entry in the book stating that "only two examples have been noted with a woman's christian name." I see now that the authors are referring to the surname as being more of an occupational title than an inherited name.
Very interesting book! Thanks for the recommendation. :)
-- Nanaea
"Trades were more inheritable than surnames, and this probably contributed to the 'de-feminization' of Baxter…"
Well, that would explain the entry in the book stating that "only two examples have been noted with a woman's christian name." I see now that the authors are referring to the surname as being more of an occupational title than an inherited name.
Very interesting book! Thanks for the recommendation. :)
-- Nanaea
1