New Post
Search
Help
ArchivesA note to Yahalome
in reply to a message by Silver
Salut Yahalome,
I have a few questions in regards to your email.
1) what sounds do the following letters sounds make
dh?
ll?
ñ?
2) what do you mean voiced and unvoiced?
3) what about the vowel oy like from toy, nd uw like from two, but to me sounds like the double oo sound, but so many sites say it is unique
4) the word long, the 'ong' sound, is it made of other elements, or is it unique? (aw+n+ng??)
5) the word picture, can be pronounced like 'peik-chuhr' or u can say the 'ch' part with a t like sound, where the t and ch kind of blur together
any help from anyone on this is much appreicated
TY
~Silver
I have a few questions in regards to your email.
1) what sounds do the following letters sounds make
dh?
ll?
ñ?
2) what do you mean voiced and unvoiced?
3) what about the vowel oy like from toy, nd uw like from two, but to me sounds like the double oo sound, but so many sites say it is unique
4) the word long, the 'ong' sound, is it made of other elements, or is it unique? (aw+n+ng??)
5) the word picture, can be pronounced like 'peik-chuhr' or u can say the 'ch' part with a t like sound, where the t and ch kind of blur together
any help from anyone on this is much appreicated
TY
~Silver
1
Replies
1) what sounds do the following letters make
dh? D = voiced, T = unvoiced; TH(DH) in 'then' = voiced, TH in 'thin'
= unvoiced
ll? This is the Spanish letter, elle, pronounced el-yay, sound y or
ly: i.e. surname Padilla = pah-dee-yah or pah-deel-yah depending on
where in what Spanish-speaking country you are.
ñ? Again, eñe, ane-yay, sound ny: i.e. English canyon is from Sp. cañon, cahn-yone.
2) what do you mean voiced and unvoiced? See my second reply.
3) what about the vowel oy like from toy, nd uw like from two, but to me sounds like the double oo sound, but so many sites say it is unique
oy: say oh-ee fast. Two is oo, as far as I know.
4) the word long, the 'ong' sound, is it made of other elements, or is it unique? (aw+n+ng??)
ong, ing, ang, eng, ung are all ()ng, which is a unique sound, and
represented by the letter n with that little loop, which is borrowed
from the International Phonetic Alphabet. In ink and finger, the k
and g make the n have that sound, but because the k is not a g, it
keeps it's own sound, because the g is followed by other letters, it
keeps it's own sound.
5) the word picture, can be pronounced like 'peik-chuhr' or u can say the 'ch' part with a t like sound, where the t and ch kind of blur together
Pik-cher. The ture ending almost always sounds cher. I doen't know why, but this is one of the rules of phonics. I'd say sloppy pronounciation accounts for the other. Oh, and note tion = shun! This is what comes of speaking a melting-pot language!
CH is to me TSH. Try it! I'd say J is DZH. Just voice the same letters. Voiced/unvoiced makes for a lot of variations. Y :)
dh? D = voiced, T = unvoiced; TH(DH) in 'then' = voiced, TH in 'thin'
= unvoiced
ll? This is the Spanish letter, elle, pronounced el-yay, sound y or
ly: i.e. surname Padilla = pah-dee-yah or pah-deel-yah depending on
where in what Spanish-speaking country you are.
ñ? Again, eñe, ane-yay, sound ny: i.e. English canyon is from Sp. cañon, cahn-yone.
2) what do you mean voiced and unvoiced? See my second reply.
3) what about the vowel oy like from toy, nd uw like from two, but to me sounds like the double oo sound, but so many sites say it is unique
oy: say oh-ee fast. Two is oo, as far as I know.
4) the word long, the 'ong' sound, is it made of other elements, or is it unique? (aw+n+ng??)
ong, ing, ang, eng, ung are all ()ng, which is a unique sound, and
represented by the letter n with that little loop, which is borrowed
from the International Phonetic Alphabet. In ink and finger, the k
and g make the n have that sound, but because the k is not a g, it
keeps it's own sound, because the g is followed by other letters, it
keeps it's own sound.
5) the word picture, can be pronounced like 'peik-chuhr' or u can say the 'ch' part with a t like sound, where the t and ch kind of blur together
Pik-cher. The ture ending almost always sounds cher. I doen't know why, but this is one of the rules of phonics. I'd say sloppy pronounciation accounts for the other. Oh, and note tion = shun! This is what comes of speaking a melting-pot language!
CH is to me TSH. Try it! I'd say J is DZH. Just voice the same letters. Voiced/unvoiced makes for a lot of variations. Y :)
1
i think i get sumthin...
ok when u say unvoiced u mean the sound is jsut made by pushing air thro
but voiced means a vibration of the vocal chords, right?
~Silver
ok when u say unvoiced u mean the sound is jsut made by pushing air thro
but voiced means a vibration of the vocal chords, right?
~Silver
1
When you whisper ZEBRA, it sounds like SEPRA because Z and B are voiced. S and P are the unvoiced forms of those. But if you say, SUPPER, in a whisper, the consonants sound no different than aloud. :)
1
Basically then...
An unvoiced phonetic is not actually a proper sound, but air being pushed air through a shape made by the back of the throat, mouth, or tongue (against the roof of mouth, teeth, or nothing at all)
A voiced phoentic is actually a sound, created by the vibration of the vocal chords, uvula, tongue, or something in the mouth that makes the air in the mouth cavity oscilate.
So I get that much.
I cant find any usage for the spanish ñ sound. Is it even needed, cant just a n+y sound be used?
The same with the ll sound, can't just l+y be used?
I get dh and nj now, thanks.
Even in pronouncing "oh-ee" fast, the oh and ee parts are distinct, unless u slur them together, which would be creating a new phonetic would it not?
I still have a problem with two. Try saying "Tew", "too" and then two like u normally would, perhaps its my nothren candian french/native accent influencing something, but i hear a 'u' like sound.
I find a big difference in CH comparred to TSH, but i seem the similarity of J to DZH, but i think J is unique again.
Thanks for ne comments on this.
~Silver
An unvoiced phonetic is not actually a proper sound, but air being pushed air through a shape made by the back of the throat, mouth, or tongue (against the roof of mouth, teeth, or nothing at all)
A voiced phoentic is actually a sound, created by the vibration of the vocal chords, uvula, tongue, or something in the mouth that makes the air in the mouth cavity oscilate.
So I get that much.
I cant find any usage for the spanish ñ sound. Is it even needed, cant just a n+y sound be used?
The same with the ll sound, can't just l+y be used?
I get dh and nj now, thanks.
Even in pronouncing "oh-ee" fast, the oh and ee parts are distinct, unless u slur them together, which would be creating a new phonetic would it not?
I still have a problem with two. Try saying "Tew", "too" and then two like u normally would, perhaps its my nothren candian french/native accent influencing something, but i hear a 'u' like sound.
I find a big difference in CH comparred to TSH, but i seem the similarity of J to DZH, but i think J is unique again.
Thanks for ne comments on this.
~Silver
1
First paragraph correct.
Yes, in English we do just use ny, and on;y in words borrowed from Spanish, but they are so much a part of my life, I just thought I'd add them. (You'd be surprised at the Hispanic population in my part of Oregon.) But think of X and Q. I suppose I could say Q is related to C or K, but, well, I've only started this in the past six months, and it isn't well researched. If you or any other surfer know of a free source for THE International Phonetic Alphabet, I'd appreciate it.
Y is actually the sound in-between ee and another vowel. So in oh-ee, you shorten the ee sound a bit.
There are two distinct sounds, oo and ew. oo has a long U sound, and ew is in mew like a cat but not sew. But then, when my mom says them, I can hear a very distinct difference, but when I do, I can't hear any. AND all these sounds vary from state to state in the U.S., and in England it's worse, and then there's Canada, Australia, etc.! So it's hard to give a letter combination a particular sound that never varies.
Say TSH as t'-sh' fast, with the apostrophe as a tiny neutral letter. Same with DZH. Y :)
Yes, in English we do just use ny, and on;y in words borrowed from Spanish, but they are so much a part of my life, I just thought I'd add them. (You'd be surprised at the Hispanic population in my part of Oregon.) But think of X and Q. I suppose I could say Q is related to C or K, but, well, I've only started this in the past six months, and it isn't well researched. If you or any other surfer know of a free source for THE International Phonetic Alphabet, I'd appreciate it.
Y is actually the sound in-between ee and another vowel. So in oh-ee, you shorten the ee sound a bit.
There are two distinct sounds, oo and ew. oo has a long U sound, and ew is in mew like a cat but not sew. But then, when my mom says them, I can hear a very distinct difference, but when I do, I can't hear any. AND all these sounds vary from state to state in the U.S., and in England it's worse, and then there's Canada, Australia, etc.! So it's hard to give a letter combination a particular sound that never varies.
Say TSH as t'-sh' fast, with the apostrophe as a tiny neutral letter. Same with DZH. Y :)
1
my dad has one
My dad uses Phonemes at work and told me of a site that has the complete listof 72 phonemes.
When he gives it to me, ill pass it on.
Again, I am canadian, and still have a bit of my french/native accent from when i used to live up north so i do pronunce some words rather strangly. That and one grandparent is scottish and the other austrian, and then have wierd ways of saying words that I have picked up.
But when i say tsh it has a sharp ending, whereas the sh doesnt give u that.
If i try to say church by saying 'tshurch' it does work, i see ur point, but u still dont get the hard sound that ch gives you.
Perhaps its more horrible accent which i hate!!!
I hope to stay in touch with this, thanks for your help
~Silver
My dad uses Phonemes at work and told me of a site that has the complete listof 72 phonemes.
When he gives it to me, ill pass it on.
Again, I am canadian, and still have a bit of my french/native accent from when i used to live up north so i do pronunce some words rather strangly. That and one grandparent is scottish and the other austrian, and then have wierd ways of saying words that I have picked up.
But when i say tsh it has a sharp ending, whereas the sh doesnt give u that.
If i try to say church by saying 'tshurch' it does work, i see ur point, but u still dont get the hard sound that ch gives you.
Perhaps its more horrible accent which i hate!!!
I hope to stay in touch with this, thanks for your help
~Silver
1
Oh, don't say that! I love accents! My mom can imitate a lot of accents-Southern USA, British, Aussie, etc. ;)
You almost have to consider sh as one letter, and say them like sTh, but I have an odd accent myself, so maybe it's just me. People are always saying I have "such a sweet accent", but my parents and brother don't have it. Also our family has shreds of Southern USA in our speech. I think I've picked up a lot of bits and pieces from my mom's imitations, too. Y :)
You almost have to consider sh as one letter, and say them like sTh, but I have an odd accent myself, so maybe it's just me. People are always saying I have "such a sweet accent", but my parents and brother don't have it. Also our family has shreds of Southern USA in our speech. I think I've picked up a lot of bits and pieces from my mom's imitations, too. Y :)
1
one more thing on the loopy n
In french i noticed when pronouncing a lot of words with n in them, when a gutteral vowel came before a vary queer sound resulted
this is easiestly noted in the word 'un' with is like 'uhn' but without a hard n, more a soft n, made at the back of the mouth, rather then the front with the tongue.
This sounds just like ng' sound.
Just wanted to share that :)
~Silvah!
In french i noticed when pronouncing a lot of words with n in them, when a gutteral vowel came before a vary queer sound resulted
this is easiestly noted in the word 'un' with is like 'uhn' but without a hard n, more a soft n, made at the back of the mouth, rather then the front with the tongue.
This sounds just like ng' sound.
Just wanted to share that :)
~Silvah!
1
Interesting! I have very little French contact, can only barely pronounce a few common words, and have never heard it spoken, so...! Bon jour! (How the...excuse me...do you pronounce "jour"? And good what? :D) Y :\
1
lol! questions on q, x, wh, and w
ok ok,
Bonjour is one word. Bon = good, jour=day
i find it hard to say how to pronounce it but... 'bohnj jewr-neh" now the reason i put the n in bon as nj, is because it is not pronunced hard like in english, but near the back of the mouth, but not in the throat. This is a result from the vowels sound more slurred and less pronunced. This is coming up a lot in my phoneme difficulty.
Bonnuit or Bon nuit = good night
Bonsoir = good evening
Bonne journee = good journey (say it as a goodbye, like have a good day)
There is no real 'good afternoon' you could say Bon apres-midi... but no one does
Say Salut instead. It is more general and not as proper as Bonjour. It can also be used to say goodbye.
Au'revoir is the proper goodbye, technically meaning 'untill we see eachother again'
I love the french word Adieu - goodbye forever from 'to god' 'a dieu'
English should have a word for goodbye forever, we just steal the french word, lol
ok now for more questions
once again, i would like this opportunity to sound like a broken record and thank you for your help in this endevour
ok q and x, i dont see why we have these letters
i notice u keep them in ur phoentic list, i was curious as to why
x, itself is made of k+z, sekz for example (my apologies to anyone who found that offensive. its a good example!!!)
Usually x can be represented by one of the two letters, or both. I have yet to find a word that needs 'x'.
Ekz-celent, u get the idea
Next q, i find it's usually a k sound. Kwuilt. Do you agree, yes, no?
Next question is on w and wh.
What is the difference.
isnt wh sounds like 'what' just w+h
can u give me some examples
Lots of thankz
~Silvah
ok ok,
Bonjour is one word. Bon = good, jour=day
i find it hard to say how to pronounce it but... 'bohnj jewr-neh" now the reason i put the n in bon as nj, is because it is not pronunced hard like in english, but near the back of the mouth, but not in the throat. This is a result from the vowels sound more slurred and less pronunced. This is coming up a lot in my phoneme difficulty.
Bonnuit or Bon nuit = good night
Bonsoir = good evening
Bonne journee = good journey (say it as a goodbye, like have a good day)
There is no real 'good afternoon' you could say Bon apres-midi... but no one does
Say Salut instead. It is more general and not as proper as Bonjour. It can also be used to say goodbye.
Au'revoir is the proper goodbye, technically meaning 'untill we see eachother again'
I love the french word Adieu - goodbye forever from 'to god' 'a dieu'
English should have a word for goodbye forever, we just steal the french word, lol
ok now for more questions
once again, i would like this opportunity to sound like a broken record and thank you for your help in this endevour
ok q and x, i dont see why we have these letters
i notice u keep them in ur phoentic list, i was curious as to why
x, itself is made of k+z, sekz for example (my apologies to anyone who found that offensive. its a good example!!!)
Usually x can be represented by one of the two letters, or both. I have yet to find a word that needs 'x'.
Ekz-celent, u get the idea
Next q, i find it's usually a k sound. Kwuilt. Do you agree, yes, no?
Next question is on w and wh.
What is the difference.
isnt wh sounds like 'what' just w+h
can u give me some examples
Lots of thankz
~Silvah
1
Bonjour is a strange word. My French teachers pronounced it 'bo-JEW-er' (second two slurred together to make an interesting e sound) with the 'n' in 'bon' nearly impossible to hear and a guttural thingydoo on the end. (French is not as pretty as it's cracked up to be.) In English, though, people just say "bone-JER" or something of that ilk. Going with 'salut' (sah-LOO, I think) is a good suggestion...
English also has 'sayonara'--we steal from multiple cultures. ;)
Silver: Also, 'q' is somethings a 'ch' sound. Still uneeded...
English also has 'sayonara'--we steal from multiple cultures. ;)
Silver: Also, 'q' is somethings a 'ch' sound. Still uneeded...
1
> (French is not as pretty as it's cracked up to be.)
I kinda thought so, 'cause here 'they' say it's a beautiful language, and there 'they' say it's very nasal. From my limited experience, nasal languages are just strange, not pretty. Y ;)
I kinda thought so, 'cause here 'they' say it's a beautiful language, and there 'they' say it's very nasal. From my limited experience, nasal languages are just strange, not pretty. Y ;)
1
> (French is not as pretty as it's cracked up to be.)
I kinda thought so, 'cause here 'they' say it's a beautiful language, and there 'they' say it's very nasal. From my limited experience, nasal languages are just strange, not pretty. Y ;)
I kinda thought so, 'cause here 'they' say it's a beautiful language, and there 'they' say it's very nasal. From my limited experience, nasal languages are just strange, not pretty. Y ;)
1
That was supposed to read "someTIMES a ch sound." Bleh.
"There they" are correct. French is nasal and oozy. (Only mild amounts of offense intended to those of the Francophonish persuasion...)
"There they" are correct. French is nasal and oozy. (Only mild amounts of offense intended to those of the Francophonish persuasion...)
1
Q and X are not needed. I've no idea why they're in the alphabet. However several languages have letters like that. Those two Spanish letters, ene and elle. The Hebrew letter Tsadi (tsah-dee) sound ts.
As for wh/w, I think instead of unvoiced/voiced, maybe these are whispered v. aloud. Some areas don't make a difference. Y :)
As for wh/w, I think instead of unvoiced/voiced, maybe these are whispered v. aloud. Some areas don't make a difference. Y :)
1
opps! please ignore the 'neh' part in my attempt to pronounce, i was thinking of bonne journee...
1