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ArchivesWhither middle names?
I come from Denmark, where middle names are, well, not exactly rare, but nowhere near as common as in the States, either. I don't have a middle name, nor do my brother and sister (although my mother does). But a politician's son I went to high school with had three or four middle names. In my experience, the subject of middle names hardly ever comes up in Danish conversations about names.
So I'm wondering, whence came the tradition of giving children middle names? Did/Does it serve any particular purpose? What is the attraction of doing so? Is there any particular "cultural angle" to middle names? Honoring the grandparents or the like?
I'm slightly miffed at the whole concept of middle names because it only seems to complicate things, but, having said that, there are so many beautiful names in the world that when/if I have children, I probably *will* give them middle names! But only one.
I'm also wondering another thing (though I don't know if anyone here can tell me): Some people are called by their middle names - is this usually by their own choice (maybe they like their middle name better), or usually something that was established in very early childhood and then just stuck?
Ever wondering,
- Tue Sørensen
So I'm wondering, whence came the tradition of giving children middle names? Did/Does it serve any particular purpose? What is the attraction of doing so? Is there any particular "cultural angle" to middle names? Honoring the grandparents or the like?
I'm slightly miffed at the whole concept of middle names because it only seems to complicate things, but, having said that, there are so many beautiful names in the world that when/if I have children, I probably *will* give them middle names! But only one.
I'm also wondering another thing (though I don't know if anyone here can tell me): Some people are called by their middle names - is this usually by their own choice (maybe they like their middle name better), or usually something that was established in very early childhood and then just stuck?
Ever wondering,
- Tue Sørensen
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Replies
Well I myself don't have a middle name. I have always wanted 1 though my parents just did not give me 1.I want a middle name because i do not like my name and hopefully once i get a middle name i want to be called by it. Well sometimes the parents change ther mind too late and decide to use ther childs middle name. Or the child prefers ther middle name than ther first!
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What a lovely can of worms this morning!
My husband was named Ernest after his father and Hilton because they liked it. He has never been called Ernest, and finds that a relief, but it is rather a pain when people make the wrong assumption. His initials are EHH, which is better than HEH I suppose. Similarly, my cousin Robin Thompson has Arthur as his first name instead of his middle name because then his initials spell ART instead of RAT which has got to be preferable!
When I was expecting my first child, a woman who had worked in (British) Naval Intelligence during the Second World War said that her job was mainly contacting the surviving relatives of people who had gone down with their ships. She advised me strongly to give my children at least two names and preferably three - said that she used to find eleven pages of John Smith, from which she had to identify the right one, seven pages of John William Smith, and one single entry for John William George Smith. This made sense to me, and Peter David Alastair, Caroline Beatrice Mary and Beatrice Elizabeth Anne are the proof!
I suspect that the practice may have arisen partly from the Roman Catholic habit of taking a saint's or godparent's name in addition to one's own at confirmation; also if one converts to Catholicism one chooses a suitable Catholic name - not for use, just as something nice to have. What does the Danish royal family do? The British royals have three or four given names each, but I suppose they don't really have surnames! I think this might have been a German habit originally - German royalty anyway, while there was any.
My husband was named Ernest after his father and Hilton because they liked it. He has never been called Ernest, and finds that a relief, but it is rather a pain when people make the wrong assumption. His initials are EHH, which is better than HEH I suppose. Similarly, my cousin Robin Thompson has Arthur as his first name instead of his middle name because then his initials spell ART instead of RAT which has got to be preferable!
When I was expecting my first child, a woman who had worked in (British) Naval Intelligence during the Second World War said that her job was mainly contacting the surviving relatives of people who had gone down with their ships. She advised me strongly to give my children at least two names and preferably three - said that she used to find eleven pages of John Smith, from which she had to identify the right one, seven pages of John William Smith, and one single entry for John William George Smith. This made sense to me, and Peter David Alastair, Caroline Beatrice Mary and Beatrice Elizabeth Anne are the proof!
I suspect that the practice may have arisen partly from the Roman Catholic habit of taking a saint's or godparent's name in addition to one's own at confirmation; also if one converts to Catholicism one chooses a suitable Catholic name - not for use, just as something nice to have. What does the Danish royal family do? The British royals have three or four given names each, but I suppose they don't really have surnames! I think this might have been a German habit originally - German royalty anyway, while there was any.
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Thanks for your great comments!
"she used to find eleven pages of John Smith, from which she had to identify the right one, seven pages of John William Smith, and one single entry for John William George Smith."
Yes, but this is really only a problem because most people name their children John and William, etc. If they could learn to dish out some more varied names - and it's not as if there aren't enough to choose from! -, that would be a huge improvement, IMO.
"This made sense to me, and Peter David Alastair, Caroline Beatrice Mary and Beatrice Elizabeth Anne are the proof!"
BTW, do you know there is a U.S. comic book writer (he currently writes Supergirl and Captain Marvel) and Star Trek novelist called Peter David? David is his surname (he is Jewish), and he's got a middle name beginning with A (I don't know what it is, though). On message boards and the like he always signs his comments with "PAD".
The Roman Catholic habit you speak of makes sense, and I also seem to recall that pre-Christian Romans had lots of middle names, at least the aristocrats did. Didn't the emperors take on additional names according to the regions they conquered...?
"The British royals have three or four given names each, but I suppose they don't really have surnames!"
Same thing with the Danish royals. The surnames of the kings and queens are just Rex and Regina. Danish kings, in recent centuries, have always been called either Frederik or Christian, and the current crown prince - soon to take over from our aging queen, not unlike in the UK - is a Frederik.
"she used to find eleven pages of John Smith, from which she had to identify the right one, seven pages of John William Smith, and one single entry for John William George Smith."
Yes, but this is really only a problem because most people name their children John and William, etc. If they could learn to dish out some more varied names - and it's not as if there aren't enough to choose from! -, that would be a huge improvement, IMO.
"This made sense to me, and Peter David Alastair, Caroline Beatrice Mary and Beatrice Elizabeth Anne are the proof!"
BTW, do you know there is a U.S. comic book writer (he currently writes Supergirl and Captain Marvel) and Star Trek novelist called Peter David? David is his surname (he is Jewish), and he's got a middle name beginning with A (I don't know what it is, though). On message boards and the like he always signs his comments with "PAD".
The Roman Catholic habit you speak of makes sense, and I also seem to recall that pre-Christian Romans had lots of middle names, at least the aristocrats did. Didn't the emperors take on additional names according to the regions they conquered...?
"The British royals have three or four given names each, but I suppose they don't really have surnames!"
Same thing with the Danish royals. The surnames of the kings and queens are just Rex and Regina. Danish kings, in recent centuries, have always been called either Frederik or Christian, and the current crown prince - soon to take over from our aging queen, not unlike in the UK - is a Frederik.
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Thanks! Attempts to anagram your full names produce rather interesting stuff ;)
Ernest Hilton Hubbard
- Heart-throb in bundles
- Nobler thunder habits
- He brains thunderbolt
Anneza Hubbard
- Hand a zebra bun
- Nun babe hazard
- A Baez hand-burn (from Vietman?)
- Had a brazen bun
And dont forget: Scientology ~ isnt ecology!
Ernest Hilton Hubbard
- Heart-throb in bundles
- Nobler thunder habits
- He brains thunderbolt
Anneza Hubbard
- Hand a zebra bun
- Nun babe hazard
- A Baez hand-burn (from Vietman?)
- Had a brazen bun
And dont forget: Scientology ~ isnt ecology!
1
I'm not sure why or how middle names originated, alas, but others around here probably are. There are a few modern purposes . . . one, it's often hard for two people to agree on a single name, and having two gives more flexibility. Middle names also protect prospective parents from having to give their child a really horrible name if they want to honor the people who bears it; just give it as a middle name and call the baby something nice. :) I've seen a lot of middle names that are the mother's surname or the name of a friend or relative of the parents [not all necessarily because the name was ugly, though...]. And with names, complicated is better—if names' meanings weren't so complicated to find, this beautiful website would not exist! Heh, I'm mostly kidding.
I'm not sure about which reason is the main one for your last question, but some parents might choose two names for their child and decide they sound better with the favorite name second—if they want to call the kid Denise, and want to use Lia as well, they might name the child Lia Denise and call her Denise if they think Denise Lia sounds horrid. I'm not sure about people choosing their middle names over their first; I tried it once [in fifth grade] but it never stuck. Hard. :\
The main reason I like middle names is because it's an excuse to use up more of my favorites. ;D And this was really long for so little actual content, I guess I'm not in a very conciseish mood tonight.
I'm not sure about which reason is the main one for your last question, but some parents might choose two names for their child and decide they sound better with the favorite name second—if they want to call the kid Denise, and want to use Lia as well, they might name the child Lia Denise and call her Denise if they think Denise Lia sounds horrid. I'm not sure about people choosing their middle names over their first; I tried it once [in fifth grade] but it never stuck. Hard. :\
The main reason I like middle names is because it's an excuse to use up more of my favorites. ;D And this was really long for so little actual content, I guess I'm not in a very conciseish mood tonight.
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Thanks for your response, Lilith
I agree that there's a good deal of entertainment value in middle names, although that's probably not why they first came into being! My interest in names has to do with creating interestingly named fictional characters for stories I hope to write someday, and middle names extremely rarely enter into the picture for fictional characters (and, again, when they do, it only complicates matters!). Especially when it's science fiction - Luke Skywalker doesn't run around with a middle name. Would be a fine mess indeed if he did; imagine "Luke Ruprecht Skywalker." :)
So, I'm still hoping to find some more definite info on the origin and original purpose of middle names.
- Tue
I agree that there's a good deal of entertainment value in middle names, although that's probably not why they first came into being! My interest in names has to do with creating interestingly named fictional characters for stories I hope to write someday, and middle names extremely rarely enter into the picture for fictional characters (and, again, when they do, it only complicates matters!). Especially when it's science fiction - Luke Skywalker doesn't run around with a middle name. Would be a fine mess indeed if he did; imagine "Luke Ruprecht Skywalker." :)
So, I'm still hoping to find some more definite info on the origin and original purpose of middle names.
- Tue
1
oh, a little more
Hey, Luke Ruprecht Skywalker is a good name. :D But yeah, middle names are pretty rare in fiction, probably partially because they hardly ever come up in everyday conversation. Or even non-everyday conversation. And sci-fi fantasy it'd be even weirder to see a middle name, since they're hardly universal.
Not sure if it'll have what you want, but there was another discussion on middle names a whiles ago, http://www.behindthename.com/wwwboardarc/messages/4684.html. And Nanaea gave this url [http://www.firmament.com/genealog/howname.htm] to someone else who asked, I think the site has some info on middle names' origins.
Hey, Luke Ruprecht Skywalker is a good name. :D But yeah, middle names are pretty rare in fiction, probably partially because they hardly ever come up in everyday conversation. Or even non-everyday conversation. And sci-fi fantasy it'd be even weirder to see a middle name, since they're hardly universal.
Not sure if it'll have what you want, but there was another discussion on middle names a whiles ago, http://www.behindthename.com/wwwboardarc/messages/4684.html. And Nanaea gave this url [http://www.firmament.com/genealog/howname.htm] to someone else who asked, I think the site has some info on middle names' origins.
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Great! Thanks, Lilith!
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middle names basically are there to make a name pretter, tradition, or because you wnat it there.
Dana P
Dana P
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