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HelpRe: Which names work best
in reply to a message by Delphi_Blue
I actually get similar vibes from them. They both rose in popularity fast (Ophelia isn't quite at the level of Willow yet, but it's risen faster and seems like it could be). They're both songs. Willow is a nature name, and Ophelia seems pastoral (even when I don't directly think of Hamlet, I do associate flow/water and flowers, plus there's Arcadia, and beyond that it sounds vaguely rural to me). Ophelia means "help, advantage" and Willow symbolizes healing and adaptability. Ophelia was last in fashion around when Willa and similar sounding names were, and Willow's also been in use since the 1800s. Ophelia and Willow seem distinct in a way Helena (having been used more widely in various forms? with ambiguous pronunciation) doesn't as much imo.
This message was edited 8/29/2023, 7:15 AM
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Yeah, I think Ophelia and Willow have the same vibe/style. Helena just seems to fit with Ophelia because it's another Shakespeare character, but the style doesn't match as closely as Willow.
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Ophelia has a long history of usage dating back to before 1880, where it was ranked at around 200 in the US. Its return to usage may track similarly to Willow’s arrival- but Willow was nowhere to be found pre-2000s. One is an older name with fluctuating usage, the other is a modern word name that shot from not in the top 1000 ever to 37 in just over 20 years.
Helena has a more similar trajectory - at 200 in 1880, slower to drop out of fashion than Ophelia (1990 vs 1960) but then, Helena didn’t have the tragic heroine baggage. It also came back earlier and stronger but again, Ophelia has baggage.
Meanings and associations aside, which most people are not going to know anyway. Willa is a different name with a different history. Apples to oranges. I think Ophelia and Willa work well together.
Helena has a more similar trajectory - at 200 in 1880, slower to drop out of fashion than Ophelia (1990 vs 1960) but then, Helena didn’t have the tragic heroine baggage. It also came back earlier and stronger but again, Ophelia has baggage.
Meanings and associations aside, which most people are not going to know anyway. Willa is a different name with a different history. Apples to oranges. I think Ophelia and Willa work well together.
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I get that it's not familiar to you and that associations differ, but most people aren't going to know exact ranking either. There were thousands of people named Willow / Willo (+ there were a bunch of similar names like Willodean, Willobel, Willowa, Willoa, Willowmine) in the 1800s-1900s in the US, and I do associate that with Willa as they coincide; Willow (that spelling specifically) as a feminine name goes back to at least the 1860s...I feel like Ophelia sounds more indie/indulgent than Helena which fits well enough with a relatively old-timey nature name imv.
My intention was to offer a perspective in which they're not polar opposite style.
My intention was to offer a perspective in which they're not polar opposite style.
This message was edited 8/30/2023, 8:11 AM
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Not sure where you’re getting your Willow usage stats from because they do not reflect BtN stats - it doesn’t hit used “thousands of times” until 2010z
No, most people aren’t going to know the exact stats - but they will have had similar exposure levels and style phases, and it’s very noticeable with names that been at some level of constant consciousness with the general public (Ophelia in literature if not in actual usage) and names that shot to sudden popularity from obscure quickly and recently
This is what is noticeable- not that Willow is a plant and Ophelia gives “pastoral” vibes; and certainly not that one means help and the other healing.
No, most people aren’t going to know the exact stats - but they will have had similar exposure levels and style phases, and it’s very noticeable with names that been at some level of constant consciousness with the general public (Ophelia in literature if not in actual usage) and names that shot to sudden popularity from obscure quickly and recently
This is what is noticeable- not that Willow is a plant and Ophelia gives “pastoral” vibes; and certainly not that one means help and the other healing.
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...yeah, I was telling you I get that similar sense of time from Willow (along with all the other impressions). I don't think it's true we have similar exposure levels, or that everyone would, or that everyone would make such a distinction between it and Willa. But I assume my sense is at least vaguely like the sense you said you get from Willa (or possibly Ivy? Ivy wasn't that popular until recently, but it's been around long enough that it seems like it could be someone's great-grandmother to me).
I'm getting the knowledge of Willow having been in use, plus the spelling variations that include it, from census records and cemeteries, but beyond that, it just doesn't sound new to me. I don't really have a reason to believe I'm alone in that, considering the records do exist.
I have no idea how many times a name had to be used to chart in any given year (I'd think thousands of times over decades might not cut it?) and also no idea how many names that have charted don't have a page/rank listed on BtN specifically (I have come across some from the SSA charts that aren't on BtN; not often, but it happens).
I'm getting the knowledge of Willow having been in use, plus the spelling variations that include it, from census records and cemeteries, but beyond that, it just doesn't sound new to me. I don't really have a reason to believe I'm alone in that, considering the records do exist.
I have no idea how many times a name had to be used to chart in any given year (I'd think thousands of times over decades might not cut it?) and also no idea how many names that have charted don't have a page/rank listed on BtN specifically (I have come across some from the SSA charts that aren't on BtN; not often, but it happens).
This message was edited 8/31/2023, 6:42 AM
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