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WDYT of Irma?
I'm reading "Picnic At Hanging Rock", so the name is stuck in my head. Thoughts?
**Starfish and coffee, maple syrup and jam/Butterscotch clouds, a tangerine, and a side order of ham**
I'm reading "Picnic At Hanging Rock", so the name is stuck in my head. Thoughts?
**Starfish and coffee, maple syrup and jam/Butterscotch clouds, a tangerine, and a side order of ham**
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In my accent, it sounds like little more than a mumble, something like "UHHHM-ə". It sounds dated and unpleasant.
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I really like it. It has an old-fashioned vibe but it's not too dowdy. I might not like it so much if I didn't know a co-worker called Irma, though. She is a lovely person and makes her name lovely as well. I only like Irma with the Finnish pronounciation (EER-mah), the English one is pretty unfortunate.
I also really like Irmeli, which has a Boomer vibe in Finland. I think it's very cute and has amazing middle name potential.
I also really like Irmeli, which has a Boomer vibe in Finland. I think it's very cute and has amazing middle name potential.
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A little rant on old-fashioned names "coming back"
I’ve seen people recently talking about how Irma, Edith, and other old-fashioned names are "coming back into style", but are people aware of the current trends?
Emma and Evelyn have come back into vogue, yes, but not because they’re old-fashioned - that might be a secondary reason, but not the main one.
The main reason they became popular is because they had very trendy attributes: Emma was soft, simple, and feminine, while Evelyn had the much-wanted "lyn" ending and "Eva-" was a soft and trendy sound (as A Masked Man has said before).
Because these names are considered old-fashioned, many people here have assumed that other old names will follow suit - but this isn’t quite true. Mabel will come into fashion because it’s soft and feminine and has the popular "bel" ending. Names like Edna, Edith, Ethel, and Irma will not, because they have nothing to them that’s trending right now.
The only dated names that I could see coming back are Ida, because of the sound, and MAYBE Winifred or Dorothy, because of the Winnie/Freddie and Dodie nicknames.
You might say "Well, Edith and Edna have the Edie nickname."
Yes, they do, but they’re too old-fashioned for most parents. There is a limit that most parents will not pass because certain names feel too dated to use. Mabel, Ida, Winifred and Dorothy are old-fashioned, but not TOO old-fashioned for modern parents’s tastes.
Did any of that make sense? I feel like I’m just rambling, but I also felt like I had to say something about the popular assumption that "all old-fashioned names will come back". Yes, some will, but not all of them.
I’ve seen people recently talking about how Irma, Edith, and other old-fashioned names are "coming back into style", but are people aware of the current trends?
Emma and Evelyn have come back into vogue, yes, but not because they’re old-fashioned - that might be a secondary reason, but not the main one.
The main reason they became popular is because they had very trendy attributes: Emma was soft, simple, and feminine, while Evelyn had the much-wanted "lyn" ending and "Eva-" was a soft and trendy sound (as A Masked Man has said before).
Because these names are considered old-fashioned, many people here have assumed that other old names will follow suit - but this isn’t quite true. Mabel will come into fashion because it’s soft and feminine and has the popular "bel" ending. Names like Edna, Edith, Ethel, and Irma will not, because they have nothing to them that’s trending right now.
The only dated names that I could see coming back are Ida, because of the sound, and MAYBE Winifred or Dorothy, because of the Winnie/Freddie and Dodie nicknames.
You might say "Well, Edith and Edna have the Edie nickname."
Yes, they do, but they’re too old-fashioned for most parents. There is a limit that most parents will not pass because certain names feel too dated to use. Mabel, Ida, Winifred and Dorothy are old-fashioned, but not TOO old-fashioned for modern parents’s tastes.
Did any of that make sense? I feel like I’m just rambling, but I also felt like I had to say something about the popular assumption that "all old-fashioned names will come back". Yes, some will, but not all of them.
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It's very common for (female) names to come back into popular use after about 80 years. Certainly not all will, but the reincarnation of names in fashion is an observable phenomenon. The trends aren't separate from that pattern. Isabella was dowdy in the 90s, but the 2000s were ready for it because all of the sounds sounded fresh and were being lifted by the trends. Why were the trends lifting names like Isabella? In large part because such sounds had been buried for a good while, and the culture was ready for them again.
You'll be quite surprised in ten years I think. Irma's not going to get insanely popular I don't think, but people will lose a lot of knee-jerk resistance to it. People who are "ahead of the curve" and contratian are beginning to reach for those sounds that are old enough that they're novel again, and we'll begin to these super old fashioned names popping up in the British BAs. People will use them because they're appealing to them but not to everyone - but they'll be appealing to a wider audience soon enough, and they'll be grumpy about how they named their kids Irma, Mildred, Myrtle, etc BEFORE everyone else was doing it. These sounds are going to stop sounding harsh and start sounding soft and welcoming, and their frumpiness will be a "refreshing" unpretentiousness and humility in comparison to flashy Isabella and Olivia.
Check out this graph.
https://www.behindthename.com/name/bella/top/united-states/f?compare=myrtle%20isabella%20hazel&type=rank
edit: You're correct about Mabel I think - it has a lot of trendy aspects of it. It would be considered really dowdy just a decade or so ago, but the culture is ripe for it now. Hipsters have been using it for a while, though. I think Mable's mumbly consonant pattern is a harbinger of the type of fashion that is to come before long.
You'll be quite surprised in ten years I think. Irma's not going to get insanely popular I don't think, but people will lose a lot of knee-jerk resistance to it. People who are "ahead of the curve" and contratian are beginning to reach for those sounds that are old enough that they're novel again, and we'll begin to these super old fashioned names popping up in the British BAs. People will use them because they're appealing to them but not to everyone - but they'll be appealing to a wider audience soon enough, and they'll be grumpy about how they named their kids Irma, Mildred, Myrtle, etc BEFORE everyone else was doing it. These sounds are going to stop sounding harsh and start sounding soft and welcoming, and their frumpiness will be a "refreshing" unpretentiousness and humility in comparison to flashy Isabella and Olivia.
Check out this graph.
https://www.behindthename.com/name/bella/top/united-states/f?compare=myrtle%20isabella%20hazel&type=rank
edit: You're correct about Mabel I think - it has a lot of trendy aspects of it. It would be considered really dowdy just a decade or so ago, but the culture is ripe for it now. Hipsters have been using it for a while, though. I think Mable's mumbly consonant pattern is a harbinger of the type of fashion that is to come before long.
This message was edited 8/12/2020, 4:13 PM
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A lot of things (fashion, music, design) go from being dated to charmingly retro /old-fashioned, I think it applies to names as well. I spend a lot of time in a French-speaking area and see toddlers boys with names like Basile, Léonce and Clément , which until a few years ago would have been considered incredibly old-mannish.
Isn’t there the theory names come back once the generation beating them originally has died out?
Isn’t there the theory names come back once the generation beating them originally has died out?
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Do you attribute Hazel coming back solely to "The Fault in Our Stars"?
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I didn't know (or forgot) that there was a Hazel in The Fault in Our Stars, so I assumed Hazel coming back was partly because of the popularity of witchy aesthetics? I recently watched a video about people trying to capitalize on that "witchy aesthetic" thing by interviewing real witches but making the whole thing into clickbait. There's also the whole cottagecore thing which overlaps with the witchy thing and I's expect both to influence the popularity of Hazel.
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Yeah, cottagecore’s getting pretty popular.
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I’ve never read the book and I don’t know how popular it is, so I don’t really have an answer to that.
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Are you only talking about the US? Because Edith is already “back” in the UK, it’s in the top 100 now.
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Yes, I’m only talking about the U.S. From what I’ve known, name trends in the U.S. and U.K. are rather different.
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In some ways they're different, but there's a clear correspondence of names getting big in the UK and then getting big in the US 5-10 years later.
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"...there's a clear correspondence of names getting big in the UK and then getting big in the US 5-10 years later."
Or vice versa as in the case of Edith and maybe Florence, which were popular in the US and then caught on in Britain. The usage of some names like Alice and Evelyn don't seem to have been inspired by another countries use; it seems more related to old fashioned names making a comeback.
With names like Sophia, I think the US trend may have been more inspired by Italy and widespread trends, and Camila is more due to Spanish influence.
Or vice versa as in the case of Edith and maybe Florence, which were popular in the US and then caught on in Britain. The usage of some names like Alice and Evelyn don't seem to have been inspired by another countries use; it seems more related to old fashioned names making a comeback.
With names like Sophia, I think the US trend may have been more inspired by Italy and widespread trends, and Camila is more due to Spanish influence.
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Cute and ready for a comeback!
This is another “old lady” name I think deserves a comeback :) Although wasn’t there a Hurricane Irma recently?
This is another “old lady” name I think deserves a comeback :) Although wasn’t there a Hurricane Irma recently?
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It has character...um, I picture a chain-smoking waitress, middle-aged in the 1970s, or present day, a little kid with braids and funky rain boots?...I'm fond of it.
This message was edited 8/11/2020, 10:51 PM
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It's an okay name, but I automatically think of Hurricane Irma.
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love this name. and the "fights" are hilarious lol
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It's too clunky for real life IMO.
A terrific name for a hedgehog, though.
It has a certain warmth. Reminds me of Erma Bombeck (that'll date me).
A terrific name for a hedgehog, though.
It has a certain warmth. Reminds me of Erma Bombeck (that'll date me).
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I think Irma would make a great hound dog.
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My grandmother loved Erma Bombeck. I read a bunch of her books too and she was pretty funny. I like that old-style "housewife humor." Erma Bombeck, Jean Kerr, Peg Bracken and Shirley Jackson.
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If it sounds like ERma, I'm out. If it sounds like EARma (approximately the French and German version), I like it but wouldn't use it: too many names are nicer.
I know a late-twenties/early thirties Irmela; her German father pronounces it EARmela and pretty much everyone else says it like ERmela. I prefer it to Irma, but I think I'm influenced by the bearer rather than the name itself.
I know a late-twenties/early thirties Irmela; her German father pronounces it EARmela and pretty much everyone else says it like ERmela. I prefer it to Irma, but I think I'm influenced by the bearer rather than the name itself.
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this is actually the name of my Hungarian great-aunt! my family pronounces it EAR-ma, but everyone calls her Mimi. I quite like the name, but I guess it depends on how it's pronounced where you're from. the standard English pronunciation isn't as nice, in my opinion.
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I don't really like it
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I would be okay with it with in languages that pronounce the I as a short I, like EAR-ma. But I hate the English pronunciation of UR-ma.
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It sound like someone is uncertain. Urrrm... Uh...
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Sorry Martha,, I think it’s sort of nice and the tide is turning on it a bit. It’s been cthonic just about long enough. Britain will be spotted with a few baby Irmas in the coming years. The ugliness just sort of departs from names after a while. But I’ve long been a fan of ermengarde because I happen to think all the sounds are pretty and the imagery is nice, plus I watch the great British bake off.
Sorry about the snark, a little bit. People have different tastes. Some people like consonants.
Edit: I think the general perception of the “er” sound will change from it being harsh to being soft and endearing. Sort of like how “Bella” etc changed from dowdy and dumb to being pretty and elegant.
Sorry about the snark, a little bit. People have different tastes. Some people like consonants.
Edit: I think the general perception of the “er” sound will change from it being harsh to being soft and endearing. Sort of like how “Bella” etc changed from dowdy and dumb to being pretty and elegant.
This message was edited 8/11/2020, 11:33 AM
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It sounds like a frumpy old lady name.
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I don't like it. It's harsh and unappealing.
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Rather unattractive. The “IRRR” beginning is harsh.
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It's not quite as awful as Edna or ethel, but it's still pretty bad.
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LOL that's the kindest thing you've said on this website in eons.
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The movie is a pretty faithful adaptation, from what I can tell. If you have some extra time, check out the book. It isn't very long.
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I used to have a friend called Irma. I always thought it was an unappealing dated name and that hasn't changed at all.
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I think Irma is a cracking, underused gem of a name! It feels so medieval! Any little Irma would stand out like a star among a sea of Emmas and Ellas! Irma is spritely and fresh. It's elegant in an unexpected way, and it possesses an almost elven quality! I can imagine an Irma at Arthur's round table! Fans of pedestrian names will, of course, not understand its appeal.
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OMG
This literally made me laugh out loud.
This literally made me laugh out loud.
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Me too! :D
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Ridiculing good taste? Not cute ;)
This message was edited 8/11/2020, 1:32 PM
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She's actually quoting me. This is something I wrote on the lounge yesterday. I was making fun of the nauseating pretense I see sometimes on this board.
If you're really as astute a gentlemen as you to like play on this board, you'll reconsider your reductive understanding of aesthetics.
If you're really as astute a gentlemen as you to like play on this board, you'll reconsider your reductive understanding of aesthetics.
This message was edited 8/11/2020, 2:23 PM
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Sense: 4d: a discerning awareness and appreciation
Of: 5a: relating to : ABOUT
Humor: 1b: the mental faculty of discovering, expressing, or appreciating the ludicrous or absurdly incongruous : the ability to be funny or to be amused by things that are funny
Of: 5a: relating to : ABOUT
Humor: 1b: the mental faculty of discovering, expressing, or appreciating the ludicrous or absurdly incongruous : the ability to be funny or to be amused by things that are funny
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Har har har
Okay, I'm laughing now. Thanks for defining the phrase "sense of humor."
Okay, I'm laughing now. Thanks for defining the phrase "sense of humor."
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Must you be so petty, it's not a good look /:
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I haven't really liked you since you said my name was a "terrible name" and your uptight nature evident here doesn't give me any reason to change my mind.
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I don't remember ever commenting on the name Janice and I usually try not to come off too negative when giving my opinions, don't know what your talking about. But if I did say that, that's not nearly as bad as most of the spiteful comments here.
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Ah well, it wasn't directly about my name. It was contained in a comment about Janus, so it's not surprising you don't remember it.
I know it's childish to hold that against a person, so I apologize.
I've received what I consider to be humorless, straitlaced responses to jokes before, so this time I lost my patience. Sorry.
I know it's childish to hold that against a person, so I apologize.
I've received what I consider to be humorless, straitlaced responses to jokes before, so this time I lost my patience. Sorry.
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It's cool, I am pretty uptight, but it's only because I don't like bullying or humor at others expense of any kind. I do think people on both sides are taking this a little too personally though.
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I'm annoyed because I'm annoyed at the original post on the lounge, which seemed to refer mostly to Wordsmith and seemed like bullying.
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I'm oblivious apparently and thought it was about a pattern of multiple posters. Myself included.
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I'm really sorry if you thought I was talking about you. I would never.
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I wasn't hurt... I thought it was hilarious.
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Yes, it was hard to tell if it was about me and whomever else or just Wordsmith - and if it’s the latter it would have been better to just call him out, specifically for his nastiness instead of his affection for weird names. Calling out his rudeness is definitely warranted, but that’s not how the post was phrased, and think it’s super Mean Girls to make fun of people for liking weird names on a names board.
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You know what? I think you might consider following your own advice here. Posting about me underneath this thread and not replying directly to my original post (or any of my subsequent posts) is passive aggressive and, dare I say it, a little "mean girl" of you.
I'm aware I'm behaving like a shit. I can own it. I make snide comments and I write satirical shit and it isn't always nice. And I'm not going to stop it. Can you own your shit?
I'm aware I'm behaving like a shit. I can own it. I make snide comments and I write satirical shit and it isn't always nice. And I'm not going to stop it. Can you own your shit?
This message was edited 8/11/2020, 7:36 PM
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I resonated more with Gracie's response, and bounced off of something she brought up, that I wouldn't have been able to articulate if she hadn't brought it up. Your response seemed... complete. lol
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Sorry you don't like it. I don't regret writing it at all. It's in response to such rancid snobbery that frankly I don't care.
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Do people have to take themselves seriously at every minute of every day?
Look at what I did in this thread. I had a little hissy fit because months ago someone said my name was terrible. I acted like I'm ten years old. Let's have a laugh at my expense.
Look at what I did in this thread. I had a little hissy fit because months ago someone said my name was terrible. I acted like I'm ten years old. Let's have a laugh at my expense.
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Well done XD
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Whoops!
I just realized that was satire. I believed it at first, so I guess that means you did a good job?
I just realized that was satire. I believed it at first, so I guess that means you did a good job?
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It is definitely old-fashioned, but medieval? I don't really think so.
Mentioning Emma in connection with it makes me think of that weird meme "Ermagurd!" meme a few years ago. Irma/Erma actually does kind of sound like someone with a speech impediment or really bad teeth saying Emma.
Mentioning Emma in connection with it makes me think of that weird meme "Ermagurd!" meme a few years ago. Irma/Erma actually does kind of sound like someone with a speech impediment or really bad teeth saying Emma.
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Well, royal women named Ermengarde existed in the eighth century, so it's not fallacious to say Irma's old.
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Irma is one of the few nicknames I have ever had
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LOLOLOL
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HA! Shame on me.
a
a
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It sounds like a noise a laboring woman would make while writhing in pain.
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And Kayley (et al.) sounds like the deranged noises someone addicted to helium might make.
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agree ...
This is getting tiresome. I don't mind if somebody genuinely likes an old or obscure name, or dislikes a modern or very popular name. But WS seems more and more to be deliberately contrarian, to the point where I get the very strong feeling that he is borderline trolling. His pompous manner does not help. We're not idiots here, and you aren't superior to us just because you ferret out the oldest, most antique and unknown names you can find and fawn over them, and turn your nose up at any name that has gotten some use in the last three centuries. You're not fooling anybody but yourself.
This is getting tiresome. I don't mind if somebody genuinely likes an old or obscure name, or dislikes a modern or very popular name. But WS seems more and more to be deliberately contrarian, to the point where I get the very strong feeling that he is borderline trolling. His pompous manner does not help. We're not idiots here, and you aren't superior to us just because you ferret out the oldest, most antique and unknown names you can find and fawn over them, and turn your nose up at any name that has gotten some use in the last three centuries. You're not fooling anybody but yourself.
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Can a board not just have a quirky person and all the grownups on the board deal with it?
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We're all quirky in our own ways and we mostly do manage to get along. But everybody also has their limit.
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Fair enough.
eta: Right now I'm raging about HOAs on facebook so I think some of that attitude is being carried forward here.
eta: Right now I'm raging about HOAs on facebook so I think some of that attitude is being carried forward here.
This message was edited 8/11/2020, 8:31 PM
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Why does "quirky" always seem to cross over into "overbearing"?
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What about the question, "why do I feel the need to regulate people who have strong opinions about things that don't matter, when those feelings are different from mine" ?
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That's a perfect description of Wordsmith, in this thread, at least.
It's not his opinions, it's his reaction to the opinions of others. I will say that I haven't noticed him doing this frequently, but that could be because I haven't been paying attention. In any case, there was no need to respond to Martha the way he did in this thread. On the surface, it was just a statement about a name that wasn't the subject of this OP, but underneath the surface it was intended as a simple dismissal of her opinion.
It's not his opinions, it's his reaction to the opinions of others. I will say that I haven't noticed him doing this frequently, but that could be because I haven't been paying attention. In any case, there was no need to respond to Martha the way he did in this thread. On the surface, it was just a statement about a name that wasn't the subject of this OP, but underneath the surface it was intended as a simple dismissal of her opinion.
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yes ...
It isn't about his opinions about names; it's his opinions about his opinions and the opinions of other people, and the way he expresses them that are insufferable.
It isn't about his opinions about names; it's his opinions about his opinions and the opinions of other people, and the way he expresses them that are insufferable.
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True, he could be more grown-up about dealing with other people's taste.
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Holy cow, what’s going on here? Lol
I think I might be the only one in the board who likes a little snark AND a little pomp. Isn’t there room for both? I’ve been known to swing too far in either direction once in a while myself. Or, like, with every post. I’m not anxious to know how many enemies I must have made!
I think I might be the only one in the board who likes a little snark AND a little pomp. Isn’t there room for both? I’ve been known to swing too far in either direction once in a while myself. Or, like, with every post. I’m not anxious to know how many enemies I must have made!
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I agree
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I'll just say that if he actually conducts his day to day life wearing this persona and "smithing" such bombast, well, I'm embarrassed for him.
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Ugh, that would be gross.
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I'm not a troll
I'm a name enthusiast. Everyone's entitled to love the names they love, but I do feel compelled to respond to your relentless laceration of any name that's remotely unusual. If you're comfortable issuing such scathing remarks, you should be equipped to tolerate pushback.
I'm a name enthusiast. Everyone's entitled to love the names they love, but I do feel compelled to respond to your relentless laceration of any name that's remotely unusual. If you're comfortable issuing such scathing remarks, you should be equipped to tolerate pushback.
This message was edited 8/11/2020, 2:17 PM
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Maybe you're referring to something RoxStar does specifically (idk, I almost never pay attention to who posts what) but I don't think anyone's hating on Irma just for being unusual. It has a nasally sound that most people find ugly. If you don't like the sound of a name you wouldn't like it more if it was more popular.
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Here's the thing: You shouldn't feel "compelled to respond". There is no need for "pushback" simply for the sake of "pushback". There is no arguing with an opinion. Sure, once in a while, someone might have something useful to say in response to an opinion, such as "I don't see it as X, I see it as Y because of Z". That adds to the conversation. But "I'm going to counter with what I think is bad" adds nothing to the conversation. If we all felt ""compelled to respond" to every differing opinion we see here, every post would generate a miles long thread which would eventually degenerate into "You're wrong" and "No, I'm right and you're wrong".
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No, I wasn't implying you like it. I'm just trying to balance out the undue laceration of "frumpy" names. :)
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agree ...
That, or some fat, out-of-shape guy trying to move the couch while his sour-faced wife stands with arms folded, glaring at him for bumping the woodwork.
That, or some fat, out-of-shape guy trying to move the couch while his sour-faced wife stands with arms folded, glaring at him for bumping the woodwork.
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I like it but it feels very dated.
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Not sure this one is quite ready for a comeback. It still feels a bit clunky. Although, I do find this spelling more appealing than Erma for some reason.
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