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WDYT of Sylvia?
Sadly, any Sylvia born now will inevitably google famous Sylvias and find out about Sylvia Likens.
Sadly, any Sylvia born now will inevitably google famous Sylvias and find out about Sylvia Likens.
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I do not like it much. It is a common name in the generation of my parents, that is why it is not very interesting for me. I know a lot of Sylvias and Sylvies that are around 50ys now.
(I never heard about Sylvia Likens. I do not think that this is a problem.)
(I never heard about Sylvia Likens. I do not think that this is a problem.)
This message was edited 12/17/2018, 2:07 AM
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I don't know who Sylvia Likens is but I like the name Sylvia and there are plenty of more-famous Sylvias too. No name is 100% pure, the only name that's never belonged to a bad person or bad association would be a name that you made up yourself and researched so that you know noody before your kid has ever had the name.
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At some point in the past, I read about the Sylvia Likens case. I can't remember how I stumbled upon it. Nevertheless, when I read your post, I thought, "Who's Sylvia Likens?" I Googled it and then thought "Oh yeah, I've read about this." The name hadn't stuck with me.
But anyway, that's not what you asked. You didn't ask if I or anyone else associates the name Sylvia with Sylvia Likens. You asked if a hypothetical future Sylvia will be upset at finding out about the case.
There's no predicting with 100% accuracy what any yet-to-be-born person will think or feel in 20 to 30 years time, so we have to go with probabilities. And I say probably nah.
ETA: Oops, you didn't even ask that. The only thing you asked was what I thought of Sylvia. I love it and would seriously consider it.
But anyway, that's not what you asked. You didn't ask if I or anyone else associates the name Sylvia with Sylvia Likens. You asked if a hypothetical future Sylvia will be upset at finding out about the case.
There's no predicting with 100% accuracy what any yet-to-be-born person will think or feel in 20 to 30 years time, so we have to go with probabilities. And I say probably nah.
ETA: Oops, you didn't even ask that. The only thing you asked was what I thought of Sylvia. I love it and would seriously consider it.
This message was edited 12/13/2018, 7:43 AM
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Sadly, I think you're trolling, actively trying to get kids to go read about bizarre crimes. Anyone with a fairly common name who wants to find crime victims, or martyrs or killers with the same name, can do that. I'll bet you could even list a bunch more of them off the top of your head.
Sylvia is a lovely name.
Sylvia is a lovely name.
This message was edited 12/12/2018, 11:12 PM
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Good point.
A long time ago I had read about the Likens case, but I didn't remember her name. I Googled, saw the first sentence and that was it. The thought of reading anymore made me sick to my stomach.
In fact, as I said, Sylvia Likens didn't even come up when I first Googled Sylvia. You would have to dig pretty hard to find that.
A long time ago I had read about the Likens case, but I didn't remember her name. I Googled, saw the first sentence and that was it. The thought of reading anymore made me sick to my stomach.
In fact, as I said, Sylvia Likens didn't even come up when I first Googled Sylvia. You would have to dig pretty hard to find that.
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Actually, she was the third hit I got when I Googled Sylvia...:/
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i...just looked up famous Sylvias, wondering if that info was as widespread as you think, or it's another one of your weird "true crime" things..and i saw no results about Sylvia Likens. you just admitted how big of a hobby looking up disturbing child murder cases is to you. i doubt Sylvia Likens would appreciate you obsessing over and entertaining yourself with her story.
and i thought i was silly for worrying about the actually widespread association with Sylvia Plath. wow.
if i do go through with the name Sylvia, i doubt my daughter would easily come across Sylvia Likens' story. unless she joins the true crime fandom- but if that's the case, i'd have failed as a parent.
anyway, go read Sylvia Pankhurst's work. watch a documentary on Sylvia Rivera. do something more respectable with your time.
and i thought i was silly for worrying about the actually widespread association with Sylvia Plath. wow.
if i do go through with the name Sylvia, i doubt my daughter would easily come across Sylvia Likens' story. unless she joins the true crime fandom- but if that's the case, i'd have failed as a parent.
anyway, go read Sylvia Pankhurst's work. watch a documentary on Sylvia Rivera. do something more respectable with your time.
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I've often had similar thoughts---that it's ghoulish and disrespectful to the victims to show interest in murder cases. I've even said that the media shouldn't talk about them, that they are nobody's business but the victim's family, the accused, and the family of the accused.
However, it is so common for people to have great interest in murder cases that I can't help but feel you're being a little hard on Paul here. I remember seeing an interview with Debra Tate, the sister of Sharon Tate, in which she said, "I can't stand the thought of people oogling over her death." I just had to laugh a little, not because I couldn't sympathize with the sentiment, but just because massive numbers of people had already been "oogling" over Sharon Tate's death for over thirty years by the time Debra made the comment. And also it seemed just so naive to think it could possibly be any different.
Authors have made livings by writing true crime books. They write them because they sell. We've all heard of Ted Bundy, haven't we? We've all heard about him because writers, both in the media and book authors, write about what people want to read. And the crime is always murder, they don't write books about insider trading. I think it's human nature. Yes, there's a lot of Schadenfreude in the interest, and Schadenfreude is not an attractive quality, but it's a very human quality.
I can understand you being turned off by true crime and hoping that no child of yours becomes an aficionado of it. My point is that I don't think Paul is that unusual or that much of a freak.
However, it is so common for people to have great interest in murder cases that I can't help but feel you're being a little hard on Paul here. I remember seeing an interview with Debra Tate, the sister of Sharon Tate, in which she said, "I can't stand the thought of people oogling over her death." I just had to laugh a little, not because I couldn't sympathize with the sentiment, but just because massive numbers of people had already been "oogling" over Sharon Tate's death for over thirty years by the time Debra made the comment. And also it seemed just so naive to think it could possibly be any different.
Authors have made livings by writing true crime books. They write them because they sell. We've all heard of Ted Bundy, haven't we? We've all heard about him because writers, both in the media and book authors, write about what people want to read. And the crime is always murder, they don't write books about insider trading. I think it's human nature. Yes, there's a lot of Schadenfreude in the interest, and Schadenfreude is not an attractive quality, but it's a very human quality.
I can understand you being turned off by true crime and hoping that no child of yours becomes an aficionado of it. My point is that I don't think Paul is that unusual or that much of a freak.
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i think there's an enormous difference in people taking an academic interest in it, and people who enjoy true crime as a fun hobby. especially when it comes to cases of young girls. i've seen many people online who eagerly bring up the facts of a child's murder as if it were a football game. who devote entire blogs to collecting as much information on the victims or killers, no matter how irrelevant to the case.
they can sometimes even lead to glamorizing the murderers- which is much more extreme of course, and i wouldn't lightly accuse someone if that, but they are often in vicinity to these people, they indirectly help these people pass as normal. i've seen it happen, it's imo one of the most serious issues with online culture.
my post was meant as a response to Paul's posts in general, which noel described in detail (i wasn't even aware of some of the worse ones, yikes).
(apologies for not seeing this response earlier).
they can sometimes even lead to glamorizing the murderers- which is much more extreme of course, and i wouldn't lightly accuse someone if that, but they are often in vicinity to these people, they indirectly help these people pass as normal. i've seen it happen, it's imo one of the most serious issues with online culture.
my post was meant as a response to Paul's posts in general, which noel described in detail (i wasn't even aware of some of the worse ones, yikes).
(apologies for not seeing this response earlier).
This message was edited 12/15/2018, 9:52 AM
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Paul's past posts and his motivation aside, that was my point, though. I agree with what you said about glamorizing the murderers, and having some distaste about true crime as a fun hobby, but very little of the interest is academic and it's quite common. In fact, I've been the one who's been made to feel like a freak for voicing the same sentiments that you are.
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Other things that are quite common yet considered distasteful include burping and misogyny. I wouldn't encourage either of those. I might defend burping as human and necessary, but if someone came up and burped right in my face repeatedly, I'd feel justified in saying "ew, please stop".
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The thing is, this isn't the first time Paul has posted about a young female murder victim in connection to a rather ordinary name on the opinions board. That, combined with some of his posts in the lounge (criticizing a little girl's clothes in a missing persons ad; a closeup pic of a preteen's butt, lamenting that it's not the type of thing one sees on TV nowadays) made this post strike me as creepy...why does Paul keep bringing up girls in this context? Yeah, interest in the macabre isn't uncommon, and there are lots of possible motivations for it, but I've gotten the impression he's fetishizing (and/or trolling, as mirfak said), and viewed through that lens, if anything, I think irene was overly nice.
This message was edited 12/13/2018, 11:49 PM
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thank you
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^Agree with all of this.
yeesh
yeesh
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Love this response
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If you try to avoid any name ever connected with anyone or anything bad, you're going to end up with a precious short list. There have been a lot of people living on this earth in the past, most of whom had names, and most of whom did something bad or had something bad happen to them at some point. Like, maybe don't use Adolf or Judas, but seriously there's no need to be so overly conscientious.
I think Sylvia is a lovely, elegant name.
I think Sylvia is a lovely, elegant name.
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Love it! Always thought it sounded very elegant and beautiful. I have a neice named this. So a very positive association for me. She immediately comes to mind.
As for 'Likens' I have NO idea who that is anyway.
As for 'Likens' I have NO idea who that is anyway.
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It was my grandmother's name. Never heard of Sylvia Likens. So, if I had a daughter, I would possibly use it as a middle name, and I wouldn't care.
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And Sylvia Plath, and Sylvia Browne, and the singer Sylvia, and Sylvia Sidney, and Sylvia Ashton-Warner.
A whole bunch of Sylvias, and the name is so well-known that a single famous murder victim back in the 1960s is not going to make much of an impression.
No more so than the name Sharon happening to belong to Sharon Tate is going to mean much to anybody these days, and probably not even back then.
A whole bunch of Sylvias, and the name is so well-known that a single famous murder victim back in the 1960s is not going to make much of an impression.
No more so than the name Sharon happening to belong to Sharon Tate is going to mean much to anybody these days, and probably not even back then.
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Who IS Sylvia Likens, anyway?
Bc you may or may not have just ruined a top 30 name of mine. I usually avoid names with strong negative connections...but maybe I should stop? :/
Bc you may or may not have just ruined a top 30 name of mine. I usually avoid names with strong negative connections...but maybe I should stop? :/
This message was edited 12/12/2018, 7:17 AM
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She was a young girl who was tortured and murdered by the woman who was supposed to be watching her (as well as one of her sons and a couple neighborhood boys).
There is a (fiction) book "The Girl Next Door" by Jack Ketchum that is loosely based on the case.
So Sylvia herself wasn't a bad person, but it's tied to a horrible crime.
If you wanted to read about it, here's the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Sylvia_Likens
There is a (fiction) book "The Girl Next Door" by Jack Ketchum that is loosely based on the case.
So Sylvia herself wasn't a bad person, but it's tied to a horrible crime.
If you wanted to read about it, here's the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Sylvia_Likens
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I kind of figure that every semi-popular name out there has something horrible tied to it somewhere along the line. It just may or may not be memorable or newsworthy.
Not gonna let it stop me from liking a name unless it's the only association people have with the name.
Not gonna let it stop me from liking a name unless it's the only association people have with the name.
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Couldn't agree more. (:
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I love Sylvia, and it’s not unheard of where I live, although Sylvie’s more popular. I’ve never heard of Sylvia Likens, but as bad as the association seems to be (going off other comments, I’d rather not Google), there are plenty of other names with terrible events or cases attached to them which are still used, so I don’t think Sylvia is unusable. My first thoughts are Sylvia Pankhurst (my favourite Pankhurst) and Sylvia Plath.
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Hi !!!
I just checked Sylvia Likens on Google as I've never heard of her. Terrible. One of the worst cases from U.S.A. I've heard about.
But Sylvia is a strong, classic name with a nature-feeling and a 1800s aristocratic vibe in my opinion. Its Italian form Silvia is an evergreen since years.
So I'm glad that those horrible story did't ruin it.
I hope that Sylvia L. is in a better place or in a better Life now. I hope that she has born again but this time in a beautiful family.
I just checked Sylvia Likens on Google as I've never heard of her. Terrible. One of the worst cases from U.S.A. I've heard about.
But Sylvia is a strong, classic name with a nature-feeling and a 1800s aristocratic vibe in my opinion. Its Italian form Silvia is an evergreen since years.
So I'm glad that those horrible story did't ruin it.
I hope that Sylvia L. is in a better place or in a better Life now. I hope that she has born again but this time in a beautiful family.
This message was edited 12/12/2018, 4:16 AM
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ETA
While I was submitting my personal opinion in Sylvia 'comments' I saw that Sylvia Likens is not among 'namesakes' nor 'famous bearers'.
Is in you opinion tasteless adding her or at the contrary a good way to honour her unfortunate memory (just remember that she has existed and hope that something similar will never happen again)?
While I was submitting my personal opinion in Sylvia 'comments' I saw that Sylvia Likens is not among 'namesakes' nor 'famous bearers'.
Is in you opinion tasteless adding her or at the contrary a good way to honour her unfortunate memory (just remember that she has existed and hope that something similar will never happen again)?
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ahAUAHAAA THANK YOU
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I haven't Googled Sylvia Likens, and I've never heard of her.
What I do think of is that silly little vintage pop song where the guy is phoning from a call box which keeps on eating his money, desperate to say Goodbye to Sylvia, but her awful mother won't let him!
Pity about both, and about a Sylvia I was at school with, who was very pleasant but very slow and had massive problems with BO. Objectively, it's an elegant and beautiful name.
What I do think of is that silly little vintage pop song where the guy is phoning from a call box which keeps on eating his money, desperate to say Goodbye to Sylvia, but her awful mother won't let him!
Pity about both, and about a Sylvia I was at school with, who was very pleasant but very slow and had massive problems with BO. Objectively, it's an elegant and beautiful name.
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what I think-the guy on the phone once hurt Sylvia, indeed, broke her heart. but she recovered, and met the guy from Galveston, and they are to marry. AND-I believe phone guy has heard of their engagement, and it's brought Sylvia back to his attention! He wants to see if he can lure her back again;she's interesting again, now someone else has taken an interest.
Perhaps the mother is wrong, not to let phone guy talk to Sylvia. But she remembers too well how it went last time!She encourages Sylvia to hurry, catch her train, be with Galveston guy.
Perhaps the mother is wrong, not to let phone guy talk to Sylvia. But she remembers too well how it went last time!She encourages Sylvia to hurry, catch her train, be with Galveston guy.
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Thankfully, we don't have to speculate. There is a true story behind the song. From Songfacts:
Like most of the early songs recorded by Dr. Hook & the Medicine Show, this was written by Shel Silverstein. Silversteen was a brilliant storyteller with a vivid imagination, but this story was real.
In the song, Sylvia's mother is Mrs. Avery, and while that wasn't her real last name, the rest of the story - exaggerated a bit - was true. Silversteen told Rolling Stone in 1972: "I just changed the last name, not to protect the innocent, but because it didn't fit. It happened about eight years ago and was pretty much the way it was in the song. I called Sylvia and her mother said, 'She can't talk to you.' I said, 'Why not?' Her mother said she was packing and she was leaving to get married, which was a big surprise to me. The guy was in Mexico and he was a bullfighter and a painter. At the time I thought that was like being a combination brain surgeon and encyclopedia salesman. Her mother finally let me talk to her, but her last words were, 'Shel, don't spoil it.' For about ten seconds I had this ego charge, as if I could have spoiled it. I couldn't have spoiled it with a sledge hammer."
Like most of the early songs recorded by Dr. Hook & the Medicine Show, this was written by Shel Silverstein. Silversteen was a brilliant storyteller with a vivid imagination, but this story was real.
In the song, Sylvia's mother is Mrs. Avery, and while that wasn't her real last name, the rest of the story - exaggerated a bit - was true. Silversteen told Rolling Stone in 1972: "I just changed the last name, not to protect the innocent, but because it didn't fit. It happened about eight years ago and was pretty much the way it was in the song. I called Sylvia and her mother said, 'She can't talk to you.' I said, 'Why not?' Her mother said she was packing and she was leaving to get married, which was a big surprise to me. The guy was in Mexico and he was a bullfighter and a painter. At the time I thought that was like being a combination brain surgeon and encyclopedia salesman. Her mother finally let me talk to her, but her last words were, 'Shel, don't spoil it.' For about ten seconds I had this ego charge, as if I could have spoiled it. I couldn't have spoiled it with a sledge hammer."
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Do not Google it. Just trust me
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Ok - thanks!
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