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HelpRe: The judgment makes me uncomfortable
in reply to a message by Ismene
Actually, yes, I say you're not allowed to like an African-American name, either. You aren't allowed, and I'm not allowed, because we can't and we don't relate to them.
I've said here, more than once, when an African-American name has been included on a list, "I don't attempt to judge this because I'm not of this culture."
Saying you like the name sounds a lot nicer so it's more likely to get a pass, but the principle is the same.
I've said here, more than once, when an African-American name has been included on a list, "I don't attempt to judge this because I'm not of this culture."
Saying you like the name sounds a lot nicer so it's more likely to get a pass, but the principle is the same.
This message was edited 7/17/2017, 6:51 AM
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Replies
That's just ridiculous and divisive though. Who gets to decide which names are of which culture?
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You know, I didn't want to bring this up, because this is how it always turns out. I only started talking about it after BlackOpinion said something. I felt that I had to show some support at that point. Always, always, always, there are some people who don't get it. I can explain as nicely as I can until I'm blue in the face, and those people will still not get it. I did have some hope that this time it might be different, because an African-American backed up what I've been saying all along, but apparently not. Anyone who doesn't get it now will never get it, so there's no point in continuing. Therefore this will be my last post.
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You're essentially saying no one can have an opinion on any name. This attitude feels too broad- like I am also not allowed to enjoy or dislike any ethnic food because I didn't grow up eating it.
I would not seriously consider using a name that's way outside of my culture, but I still entertain the idea of liking it.
I understand that there are certain sounds or roots in names that, if not used in the culture you're from, puts them at a disadvantage as far as how familiarity plays into what one finds pleasing or not. That I get. But I also personally like a lot of names that sound odd to English speakers.
I would not seriously consider using a name that's way outside of my culture, but I still entertain the idea of liking it.
I understand that there are certain sounds or roots in names that, if not used in the culture you're from, puts them at a disadvantage as far as how familiarity plays into what one finds pleasing or not. That I get. But I also personally like a lot of names that sound odd to English speakers.
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No, I'm not saying that no one can have an opinion on any name. I'm saying that white people should take themselves out of the equation when it comes to African-American names in particular. Yes, I believe that, because of the particular history of race relations in the US. I think white non-Americans in particular may not understand this.
I think I'm more sensitive to this issue than most white Americans because I have a black boyfriend and have always had mostly white friends, and have seen my friends' little smirks and raised eyebrows about his nickname and the names of his younger relatives.
As far as a gut reaction, nobody can really help that, but I think that after the gut reaction should come the non-gut reaction of "I am not part of this culture, and there are particular race-related issues here, so I need to realize that my gut reaction has no validity."
I personally don't judge any name that isn't part of my culture. If it's a foreign name that has become common in my culture, such as the French names Nicole and Danielle, then I do, but otherwise no. Even the name Lars, which was recently asked about, I feel is too far outside my culture to judge. But I don't hold everyone to that standard about names outside of their cultures, for most cultures. It's just white / African-American that I feel strongly should be exempt.
I think that Sir as a name is a reflection of African-American naming culture. If Beyonce had named her son Boo-Boo Bear, that would have been different.
I think I'm more sensitive to this issue than most white Americans because I have a black boyfriend and have always had mostly white friends, and have seen my friends' little smirks and raised eyebrows about his nickname and the names of his younger relatives.
As far as a gut reaction, nobody can really help that, but I think that after the gut reaction should come the non-gut reaction of "I am not part of this culture, and there are particular race-related issues here, so I need to realize that my gut reaction has no validity."
I personally don't judge any name that isn't part of my culture. If it's a foreign name that has become common in my culture, such as the French names Nicole and Danielle, then I do, but otherwise no. Even the name Lars, which was recently asked about, I feel is too far outside my culture to judge. But I don't hold everyone to that standard about names outside of their cultures, for most cultures. It's just white / African-American that I feel strongly should be exempt.
I think that Sir as a name is a reflection of African-American naming culture. If Beyonce had named her son Boo-Boo Bear, that would have been different.
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i see. I was speaking a bit more broadly about different cultures in general, and those further removed from white American culture. I can understand where the black/white dynamic is particularly hairy in America. And if that's a rule you yourself use with all foreign names that's admirable, though I still wonder if you don't give positive opinions more space. I certainly cannot restrain myself there.
I would also like to say that to me there is still a difference between using a title name, which happens to follow African American naming trends, and using a title name that is also a VERY common, everyday word. Naming him, Knight or even Junior, OR naming a daughter M'lady are different to me than naming a son Sir.
I would also like to say that to me there is still a difference between using a title name, which happens to follow African American naming trends, and using a title name that is also a VERY common, everyday word. Naming him, Knight or even Junior, OR naming a daughter M'lady are different to me than naming a son Sir.
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(This sounds horribly sarcastic and confrontational, my apologies. I honestly want to know your answer.)
I have a question for you: Do you think African-Americans can judge "white culture" names?
I do also think everyone has the right to an opinion. But just because I have an opinion doesn't mean it matters. So maybe what white people think doesn't matter to black people, but they still have the right to think.
I have a question for you: Do you think African-Americans can judge "white culture" names?
I do also think everyone has the right to an opinion. But just because I have an opinion doesn't mean it matters. So maybe what white people think doesn't matter to black people, but they still have the right to think.
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I'll answer this reluctantly, because I did want the above post to be my last on the subject.
Yes, because white culture names were not invented in an environment of oppression of whites by blacks and revolt against the oppression.
Yes, because white culture names were not invented in an environment of oppression of whites by blacks and revolt against the oppression.
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Thanks for answering! That's interesting. I see your point, though I disagree. I won't get into that, though; no more arguments on this topic.
ETA: Can I ask one more question? (Totally fine if you really don't want to say anything else, though.) So... do you think it is racist/wrong for her to use the name Rumi, which is the name of a Muslim poet?
ETA: Can I ask one more question? (Totally fine if you really don't want to say anything else, though.) So... do you think it is racist/wrong for her to use the name Rumi, which is the name of a Muslim poet?
This message was edited 7/17/2017, 11:57 AM
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I'd have to become a lot more educated on Islam before I could answer that.
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Ah, okay. Thanks anyways!
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I think you're now entering the realms of positive racism.
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