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What do you think of Darlene? Do you think that most people perceive it as being tacky or trashy?
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I perceive Darlene as tacky, but more so as a dated 1940s/1950s name that I can't see on a young girl.
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I don't know how I feel about it. I tend to like "-lene" names, but it's not my style. I think because it's quite harsh. I don't think it's tacky or trashy, but I think I may have seen a movie or read a book with a trashy character named Darlene and perhaps the author felt it was.
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No clue what Americans might think, but here in South Africa we're perfectly used to Magdalene, Magdalene etc shortening to Daleen, which sounds much the same because we don't pronounce the r, or not in English anyway.
Personally, I don't have strong feelings about Daleen either way, but I do find Arlene, Darlene, Marlene etc to be rather down-market.
Personally, I don't have strong feelings about Daleen either way, but I do find Arlene, Darlene, Marlene etc to be rather down-market.
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I like it. I think it's soft and gentle, not trashy...unfortunately, I think many people disagree with me.
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I think MANY people perceive it as being tacky and trashy. It's the -lene ending. I have the same problem with Charlene which I really like. I think Roseanne and The Simpsons have helped made -ene names trashy (Brandine, Lurlene) but they were probably always a bit tacky and country-ish.
I don't really like it much. Darla is better but I don't like that much either. I think Charlene has more substance because at least it isn't just derived from an affectionate nickname.
I don't really like it much. Darla is better but I don't like that much either. I think Charlene has more substance because at least it isn't just derived from an affectionate nickname.
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For some reason, this was my absolute favorite name as a little kid and told my mom I wished she'd named me Darlene. I couldn't tell you where I even heard the name from. Now I just think it's not bad. It is quite precious sounding, but I think it can sound trashy depending on the person's accent. I have to beware of that, because for me, a lot of names sound trashy in a strong Philadelphia accent, where I'm from. For example, a lot of people have commented on here in the past that my aunt, Marita, has a very nice name, but if you hear it in a Philadelphia accent, it doesn't sound nice at all. Here T's aren't really enunciated, if that helps you imagine it.
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To clarify, in a Philly accent, I a mean the T's the middle of a word are pronounced a basically like "d", or just aren't enunciated at the end of a word.
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But isn't pronouncing the T's in the middle of a word as if they are D's typical of all American speech--not just that of Philadelphians? As opposed to the way the British pronounce the words, I mean.
I once had a friend who was American, but she was the daughter of Italian immigrants. For some reason, I think that the fact that she was the daughter of Italian immigrants has some bearing on this--perhaps it caused her to look upon Americanisms and American speech somewhat differently than those of us who are not so recently descended from Europeans.
Anyway, although she spoke perfectly fluent English with an American accent and no trace at all of any Italian accent, though she was fluent in Italian, she always made a big effort to meticulously pronounce the T sound in words such as "matter" and names such as "Patty". She told me she thought that it was lazy of Americans to say "madder" for "matter" and "Paddy" for "Patty." I made the argument that laziness has nothing to do with it, it's just the American accent and there's nothing inherently wrong with it. I pointed out that, in fact, Americans pronounce out every syllable in words such as "laboratory", "secretary", and "waistcoat", while the British slur over them, so you could make the argument that the British are lazy there.
My sister-in-law grew up in southern New Jersey, very close to Philadelphia, and has a Philly accent. The main thing I've always noticed about her accent is, for example, she says "I doan't knoaw" instead of "I don't know." Also really draws out the A sound in words like "harp" so it sounds more like "horp." I never took notice of how she pronounces D's in the middle of words because it doesn't sound any different to me than any other American.
I once had a friend who was American, but she was the daughter of Italian immigrants. For some reason, I think that the fact that she was the daughter of Italian immigrants has some bearing on this--perhaps it caused her to look upon Americanisms and American speech somewhat differently than those of us who are not so recently descended from Europeans.
Anyway, although she spoke perfectly fluent English with an American accent and no trace at all of any Italian accent, though she was fluent in Italian, she always made a big effort to meticulously pronounce the T sound in words such as "matter" and names such as "Patty". She told me she thought that it was lazy of Americans to say "madder" for "matter" and "Paddy" for "Patty." I made the argument that laziness has nothing to do with it, it's just the American accent and there's nothing inherently wrong with it. I pointed out that, in fact, Americans pronounce out every syllable in words such as "laboratory", "secretary", and "waistcoat", while the British slur over them, so you could make the argument that the British are lazy there.
My sister-in-law grew up in southern New Jersey, very close to Philadelphia, and has a Philly accent. The main thing I've always noticed about her accent is, for example, she says "I doan't knoaw" instead of "I don't know." Also really draws out the A sound in words like "harp" so it sounds more like "horp." I never took notice of how she pronounces D's in the middle of words because it doesn't sound any different to me than any other American.
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I live in Rhode Island, and in our accent "harp" would sound like "haahhp." I say "coffee" like "cawwwfee," but my cousin from western Massachusetts says "cahfee." I had a very strong accent when I was very young. I have a video tape somewhere of my graduation from kindergarten in 1987, and the kids each a line from a little "story" about the first day of school. My line was "We said goodbye to our mothers," which sounded like "We sed goodbye to ah muhthizz" when I watched it. I'm mortified. My pronunciation has drastically improved, but the trashy accent still comes out a bit when I get emotional :-P
T's are definitely D's here. I had minor reservations at first when I decided to go by my MN, because without a doubt it would be pronounced "Fee-yuh-medduh." I got over it pretty quick, though.
T's are definitely D's here. I had minor reservations at first when I decided to go by my MN, because without a doubt it would be pronounced "Fee-yuh-medduh." I got over it pretty quick, though.
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I don't think that you should have been ashamed of your accent, and I don't think that any accent is trashy. Nor do I think that efforts should be made to change them. They are interesting and I'm glad they exist. I think it would be pretty boring if we all spoke exactly the same.
I'm from northern New Jersey and I also say coffee as "Cawwwfee". Fifteen years in South Carolina hasn't changed that, and I'm glad.
I'm from northern New Jersey and I also say coffee as "Cawwwfee". Fifteen years in South Carolina hasn't changed that, and I'm glad.
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I remember the first time I attended church in the Chicago area,I noted that the diety was pronounced as "Gaaad", or even"Gaaa.."
(I'm Canadian, for new posters.)
Actually, once I took an on-line quiz to see what part of the U.S. I came from. I figured I sound like the state of Maine, as I'm on the East coast, but when I pressed the "results" indicator, a Canadian flag unfurled.
(I'm Canadian, for new posters.)
Actually, once I took an on-line quiz to see what part of the U.S. I came from. I figured I sound like the state of Maine, as I'm on the East coast, but when I pressed the "results" indicator, a Canadian flag unfurled.
This message was edited 4/5/2012, 7:20 PM
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Yes, you're right; I think in most places in the U.S., they don't enunciate the T. But I remember when I brought up that I liked Etta but I worried that it would get confused with Edda, which sounded the same, people kept telling me on here it sounded different when they said it, as well as my friend who was raised in suburbs. But my point is that Marita sounds especially unattractive in our accent, not because of the T, but when I switch to a more "suburban" accent, the t has a softer sound to it somehow.
And yep, the most defining characteristic is the nagging emphasis on vowels in the Philadelphia accent, like you mentioned with the A sound, which I think is why Darlene doesn't sound very good with it. I took a history of Philadelphia course and the professor pointed out like an almost an urgent whining sound to it. Not as fast as New York, but very straight forward and insisting.
And yep, the most defining characteristic is the nagging emphasis on vowels in the Philadelphia accent, like you mentioned with the A sound, which I think is why Darlene doesn't sound very good with it. I took a history of Philadelphia course and the professor pointed out like an almost an urgent whining sound to it. Not as fast as New York, but very straight forward and insisting.
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But isn't pronouncing the T's in the middle of a word as if they are D's typical of all American speech--not just that of Philadelphians? As opposed to the way the British pronounce the words, I mean.
You are correct. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English (see "The flapping of intervocalic /t/ and /d/ to alveolar tap [ɾ] before unstressed vowels")
You are correct. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English (see "The flapping of intervocalic /t/ and /d/ to alveolar tap [ɾ] before unstressed vowels")
This message was edited 4/5/2012, 1:47 PM
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OT: accents
I'll grant you most people in the UK would say la bor uh tree and sek ruh tree (or sometimes sek uh tree) but I've never heard anyone here pronounce waistcoat as anything other than waist+coat - in fact I'm not even sure how else you could pronounce it!
Also: not everyone here pronounces their 't's. Londoners and most Southerners pronounce matter more like ma'uh.
I'll grant you most people in the UK would say la bor uh tree and sek ruh tree (or sometimes sek uh tree) but I've never heard anyone here pronounce waistcoat as anything other than waist+coat - in fact I'm not even sure how else you could pronounce it!
Also: not everyone here pronounces their 't's. Londoners and most Southerners pronounce matter more like ma'uh.
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Well, there you go! Proves my point. But I thought that some British, at least, pronounce waistcoat as "weskit." Not that there's much call to use that word these days, anyway.
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My dad sometimes says "weskit". It is an old pronunciation and I think he just says it because it's more interesting but everyone else I know says waistcoat. I think I'm right in saying American's call them vests?
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Actually, yes, we do call them vests. To be honest, I've never in my life heard anyone say the word "waistcoat", British or American. Somewhere, somehow, I read that the British say "weskit", while Americans would say "waistcoat" and that's why I used it as an example.
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It's outdated that is for sure.
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Darn it...
This message was edited 4/5/2012, 10:03 AM
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Eh, I guess it sort has that tacky/trailer-park sort of association, but it's not as bad as it could be. I think names like Destiny, Precious, etc. are worse in that way. Darlene actually sounds quite pretty.
I actually know a Durlene. She has the strongest Texan accent (I live faaar from Texas) and it's so perfect that her name is Durlene!
I actually know a Durlene. She has the strongest Texan accent (I live faaar from Texas) and it's so perfect that her name is Durlene!
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I love Arlene, so it makes sense that I like Darlene as well. I like that it sounds like "darling," it's sweet without actually naming the kid Darling or Honeyluv or something ridiculous. Yes, I think most people think of it as a rednecky or trailer trash name, along the lines of Brandine, Lurlene, or Jolene (though I like Jolene, I have a friend with the name who's awesome.) I've gotten the same reaction about Arlene (and Arlette as well.)
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I don't think it's tacky or trashy, but in my head I always hear it in Roseanne's screechy voice.
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It's definitely middle-aged, and to me it's kind of frumpy and downmarket. It didn't have a very long shelf life.
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According to the statistics on this site, Darlene was in the top 100 from 1933 to 1966, a little over thirty years, which is a pretty typical length of time for a name to be popular. So I'd say it had an average shelf life.
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