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HelpChanging the pronunciation of names
What are your feelings about this? With names from different countries and more familiar names. Using Sahr-ah instead of Sair-ah for Sarah in the US, for example.
My DD's has the name Inari pn EE-nar-ee in Finnish, but we have softened it and made it more anglicised to ih-NAR-ee. Is this a big no-no? (And apologies to Finns, I use the Finnish pn here, but I prefer it our way and it's a 2nd mn so won't come up often.)
I have come across a few other names that I would pn one way, but when I've looked them up they are a bit different. Taliesin, Eluned for example.
Would you pn the way you like and suffer people (name nerds) who know the 'correct' pn telling you off, scoffing at you online - whatever? Or would you just not use the name? Or would you always use the correct pn?
My DD's has the name Inari pn EE-nar-ee in Finnish, but we have softened it and made it more anglicised to ih-NAR-ee. Is this a big no-no? (And apologies to Finns, I use the Finnish pn here, but I prefer it our way and it's a 2nd mn so won't come up often.)
I have come across a few other names that I would pn one way, but when I've looked them up they are a bit different. Taliesin, Eluned for example.
Would you pn the way you like and suffer people (name nerds) who know the 'correct' pn telling you off, scoffing at you online - whatever? Or would you just not use the name? Or would you always use the correct pn?
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I think it is OK when it is a completely foreign and unusual name because people wouldn't already have an expectation of the way it's pronounced. Most people wouldn't know how Inari was pronounced so it wouldn't matter if you made it slightly different.
However I do think it's silly to change the pronounciation of a name which is already well established in a culture. Your example of Sarah is very common in English-speaking countries and people would automatically pronounce it "sair-uh". So if you changed the pronounciation you'd have to correct people all the time. It would be much easier to just spell it Sara.
Also it only makes sense to change the pronounciation a little bit, as you did with Inari. The emphasis is quite a small change so it isn't such a big problem.
I personally would just use the correct pronounciation because its easier than correcting people (if it's a common name) but I don't have a big problem with people changing the problem if it's only slightly.
However I do think it's silly to change the pronounciation of a name which is already well established in a culture. Your example of Sarah is very common in English-speaking countries and people would automatically pronounce it "sair-uh". So if you changed the pronounciation you'd have to correct people all the time. It would be much easier to just spell it Sara.
Also it only makes sense to change the pronounciation a little bit, as you did with Inari. The emphasis is quite a small change so it isn't such a big problem.
I personally would just use the correct pronounciation because its easier than correcting people (if it's a common name) but I don't have a big problem with people changing the problem if it's only slightly.
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the US and UK pn Sarah differently
and that's what I meant. To use the UK pn in the US is seen as a bit weird and pretentious, but if you preferred that would you use it.
and that's what I meant. To use the UK pn in the US is seen as a bit weird and pretentious, but if you preferred that would you use it.
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I probably wouldn't use it - I'd change the spelling to change the pronounciation.
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I am guilty of using anglicized pronounciations a lot. For example, the Japanese name Sakura has emphasis on the first syllable in Japan. However, I (and other English-speakers) often place emphasis on the second syllable. I know that's not how Sakura is pronounced in Japan, but I still pronounce it the anglicized way.
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that's what we've done as well. it's the emphasis in Inari that would cause the most problem as Finns stress the first and English speakers usually the second. I soften the first I as well just because it sounds nicer to me.
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My SIL is Tara and because I lived in the UK for so long I have to keep myself from calling her Tah-ra rather than Tair-uh. She hates it.
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You can do whatever you like. I have no problem either way, however, I have noticed that the more uncommon a name is, the more you can get away with the original pronunciation since not many are familiar with it anyway.
Bottom line: Life is too short to deal with fools. Make yourself happy.
Bottom line: Life is too short to deal with fools. Make yourself happy.
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Llewella and Faelivrin have pretty much hit the nail on the head for me, but I find that it's always easier to adapt to your surroundings. I don't advocate drastic pronunciation changes, but finding a balance between the original pronunciation and how you know English speakers will say it is key. When I changed my name I knew that nobody around here (I live in New England) will ever call me fyah-MEH-ta. A native English speaker, assuming he/she can pronounce the name, will look at that and say fee-ah-MEH-ta. Yes, that adds an extra syllable - but avoids half the corrections (and makes shortening to Fia make more sense). "ia" is not a diphthong in English, but I didn't want to have to pick another name for that reason.
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I wouldn't use a foreign name unless I knew how to say it, and if the proper pronunciation was going to cause problems where the child lived, I'd choose something else instead.
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I'm talking more about people who decide to use an unusual pn for where they live or changing the pn in order to make a difficult/ unfamiliar pn a little easier for their non-native tongue.
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I think it depends on the individual name. Most importantly I would consider pronunciation difficulties that may arise with an English speaker. The native pronunciations of Inari, Taliesin, and Eluned shouldn't cause too much problems with a person unfamiliar with the original language. Other names are more difficult for English (or foreign) speakers; Llewella already mentioned Llewellyn as an example. Welsh LLs are daunting to non-speakers (including myself), and in this case it would be more appropriate to adopt an anglicized pronunciation.
This message was edited 6/14/2011, 3:35 PM
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Hm, that's a tough one but I think it really depends on the name. Most of the time I would say go with the original, people will catch hold eventually. Unless of course it sounds ridiculous/its just too hard with someone's accent (having flashbacks to my aunt's mother with the thick southern accent trying to call my call my cousins Lucien and Henri by their French names, *shudders*) Because accents can really make a lot of difference. For example: I am assuming you are American, but yet we say Sarah two different ways (I say SAH-ra, you say SAIR-ah). So I guess I would use the correct pronunciation for the region I was in (aka zson-vee-EV in New England, jen-a-veev in the south, for Genevieve)
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Interesting, I've never heard zson-vee-EV as a pronunciation of Genevieve. That sounds very French! Where I live (the Pacific Northwest) I usually hear something like JZHEN-a-veev.
It would d be interesting to start a thread about differences in regional pronunciation for common names.
It would d be interesting to start a thread about differences in regional pronunciation for common names.
This message was edited 6/14/2011, 3:43 PM
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I thought the French pronounciation of Genevieve way like jhen-uh-vee-ev (4 syllables). I know a French woman with this name and that's how she pronounces it. I've never heard zson-vee-EV either!
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to both Jade Diana and Faelivrin
@ Faelivrin: You're correct, zhon-vee-EV is the French pronunciation.
@ Jade Diana: Hmm, I'm from New England, and I've never heard it pronounced the French way here. We usually say jenna-veev.
@ Faelivrin: You're correct, zhon-vee-EV is the French pronunciation.
@ Jade Diana: Hmm, I'm from New England, and I've never heard it pronounced the French way here. We usually say jenna-veev.
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1. I have trouble typing that sound. Its awkward.
2. I have heard it both ways, I just feel like it would be easier to get away with doing that up here than in the south, except for maybe near New Orleans, because hearing things in French pronounced with a southern accent drives me bonkers. (well, southern accents do in general but that is a whole other can of worms)
2. I have heard it both ways, I just feel like it would be easier to get away with doing that up here than in the south, except for maybe near New Orleans, because hearing things in French pronounced with a southern accent drives me bonkers. (well, southern accents do in general but that is a whole other can of worms)
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I would probably tend to let it ago, assuming the pronunciation being used seems like a logical English equivalent. For example, I love Llewellyn, but no way I could expect people to pronounce it in Welsh, especially since the ll doesn't exist in English. Saying it how you would read it in English would be acceptable in that case.
But some names, like your Inari example, I would be more likely to enforce the correct pronunciation because it still makes sense to an English-speaker and is something that could be easily taught.
However, there are other cases where if it's a name that's common in English but you want to use another (thouch acceptable) pronunciation. And in those cases there would be a fine line between it seeming pretentious or not to insist on another pronunciation. For example, Geneveive in French or Josephine in German.
But some names, like your Inari example, I would be more likely to enforce the correct pronunciation because it still makes sense to an English-speaker and is something that could be easily taught.
However, there are other cases where if it's a name that's common in English but you want to use another (thouch acceptable) pronunciation. And in those cases there would be a fine line between it seeming pretentious or not to insist on another pronunciation. For example, Geneveive in French or Josephine in German.
This message was edited 6/14/2011, 1:51 PM
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I don't think adapting the pronounciation so that it works better in the language yu're immersed in is a big deal, and if the name isn't very common or the change of pronounciation slight it's no biggie. Plus I know plenty of people who pronounce their names slightly differently according to where they are.
What would be weird would be mangling the pron. of a name in a way that's counterintuitive or really butcher the original pron.
What would be weird would be mangling the pron. of a name in a way that's counterintuitive or really butcher the original pron.
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I don't know. I'm kind of stuck on this issue as well. I really like the name Lauren pronounced luh-REN instead of LAWR-en. I think just stick to whatever pronunciation you like, but change the spelling to reflect it (if possible). As long as it isn't to big of a change, I don't think it'd be a problem.
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I feel like if you're in Finland you should say EE-nar-ee and if you're in the US you could say ih-NAR-ee just fine.
In Vienna a classmate of mine, from the USA, was named Stefan, pronounced steh-FAN. But a lot of professors called him SHTEH-fan because that's the traditional Deutsch pronunciation. I called him that too, because Stefan/Stephan is said pretty often in Vienna because the Stefansdom is the point of reference for everything, so that's just how it registered in my mind. He was so cool about it. He didn't care at all and he responded to it the same as ste-FAN and he didn't roll his eyes or make a big deal out of it. Neither did anyone else, even though they'd call him ste-FAN in the same conversation. So cool!
I like the idea that names have international lives, you know? And more than one acceptable pronunciation.
If you named your kid Taliesin and called him Tally-son or whatever, but other people called him Taliesen, I don't think you would have the right to get up in arms about insisting people use Your pronunciation.
English gets a lot of names that way, right? The English pronunciations of David, Michael, Isabel, etc., now considered totally "legitimate," all started off as "mispronunciations."
My ma had a student named Tenesyne prn Tennessee. ??
In Vienna a classmate of mine, from the USA, was named Stefan, pronounced steh-FAN. But a lot of professors called him SHTEH-fan because that's the traditional Deutsch pronunciation. I called him that too, because Stefan/Stephan is said pretty often in Vienna because the Stefansdom is the point of reference for everything, so that's just how it registered in my mind. He was so cool about it. He didn't care at all and he responded to it the same as ste-FAN and he didn't roll his eyes or make a big deal out of it. Neither did anyone else, even though they'd call him ste-FAN in the same conversation. So cool!
I like the idea that names have international lives, you know? And more than one acceptable pronunciation.
If you named your kid Taliesin and called him Tally-son or whatever, but other people called him Taliesen, I don't think you would have the right to get up in arms about insisting people use Your pronunciation.
English gets a lot of names that way, right? The English pronunciations of David, Michael, Isabel, etc., now considered totally "legitimate," all started off as "mispronunciations."
My ma had a student named Tenesyne prn Tennessee. ??
This message was edited 6/14/2011, 12:17 PM
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Hm. Tough one. Personally, I would probably use the pronunciation that I like - but if it's a different pronunciation than is culturally common for that spelling where I live, I might also change the spelling.
So, in Canada, if I wanted to use Inari, I could pronounce is however I like because so few people would really know the difference or have a clue how to pronounce it in the first place. But if I wanted Sarah pronounced Sahr-ah, I might change the spelling to reflect that. That way people won't always assume it's Sair-ah and have to be corrected.
I think it's safe to assume that you won't ever run into one of the online name nerds that is scoffing at you. Or if you do, I'm guessing they wouldn't be rude enough to say something to your face. :o)
So, in Canada, if I wanted to use Inari, I could pronounce is however I like because so few people would really know the difference or have a clue how to pronounce it in the first place. But if I wanted Sarah pronounced Sahr-ah, I might change the spelling to reflect that. That way people won't always assume it's Sair-ah and have to be corrected.
I think it's safe to assume that you won't ever run into one of the online name nerds that is scoffing at you. Or if you do, I'm guessing they wouldn't be rude enough to say something to your face. :o)
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Since I'm not from Finland, and don't know anyone from there or with Finnish ancestry, I'd use the one I like. No one around me would know the difference. It's ultimately up to the parents. I doubt most people will have a name book with them to look up how to correctly say a new name when they see one.
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