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My cousin is having a baby, and wants to use the name Donald as a mn (both her and her husband's grandfathers' names), but she doesn't like the name Donald. So... what would you do? Find names with same meaning ("world mighty" or "world ruler")? Mix up letters? find a name with similar sound? She doesn't like Donall/Domhnaill/Dónal.
She's come up with Brydon (combo of Donald + Bryon her brother who died's mn)
She's come up with Brydon (combo of Donald + Bryon her brother who died's mn)
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Like almost everyone else who has answered, I'd use Donald. Of course. I agree with everyone who said that honoring means using the same name and if you don't, you're only honoring your own ego.
I used Bruce (my dad's name, given by my grandmother after no one that I know of, probably because she thought it was fashionable) as my son's middle name even though I don't like it. I still don't like it. But I'm proud that he's named after my dad, who deserves to be remembered.
I'd say to my cousin, well, if you were a man would you rather have the name of both of your grandfathers as your middle name, or be called Brydon because your mom just didn't care for Donald?
I used Bruce (my dad's name, given by my grandmother after no one that I know of, probably because she thought it was fashionable) as my son's middle name even though I don't like it. I still don't like it. But I'm proud that he's named after my dad, who deserves to be remembered.
I'd say to my cousin, well, if you were a man would you rather have the name of both of your grandfathers as your middle name, or be called Brydon because your mom just didn't care for Donald?
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Quiddity
When you honor someone by giving someone else their name, your love for them must be fierce enough to envelop their name also. As you think the bump in your husband's nose, which you initially considered awkward and wished away, the most beautiful feature any face could have, because it is his nose on his face. Because you are you, because it is it, that is love. The Thing In Itself. It-ness of it. Quiddity.
Donald is Donald, the thing in itself, beginning with its own quaint and dated syllable, tumbling over the hill of the n, rumpling into the nd at its base. It is everything it is, ancient, Scottish, both craggy and cushy at once. It is The Thing In Itself, its proclaims its donaldicity to the listening hills, birth certificates, gravestones, driver's licenses, report cards, signatures. It is nothing but itself.
If you go to honor someone using their name, it must be because your love for their name has overflowed from your love of the person. The person's quiddity. You must fiercely love the quiddity of Donald or to use it means nothing, and to use it in some horrible modern compromise-bastardization means absolutely nothing at all. Brydon takes everything which is Donaldic about Donald and washes it away. It is like Heidi Montag's plastic surgery. Worse, even. It's like on sims where you have randomized to come up with a cool face with a wonky nose and big lips and skinny eyebrows, and then click on the first default face and watch it spring and wobble back to a completely inoffensive, anonymous shape. And you call it the same Sim because it's wearing the same clothes as before. Brydon is nothing, it does not exist, it is like an empty chip bag. It is a name, a non-name, borne out of two compromises - three if you count the one to the stupid whims of modern fashion. It is like staying at home and doing nothing. It is like not using a middle name at all.
One must have courage. Brydon is not Donald. It is not Bryon. It is not honoring at all. It has made honoring a slave to the parents aesthetic preferences, which is not honoring at all. Have you ever had something published and, when you read it, found that it had been edited without your authorization to take out all of the interesting parts, all of your stylistic quirks, all of the quiddity of your work, but kept your name on it? That is Brydon.
When you honor someone by giving someone else their name, your love for them must be fierce enough to envelop their name also. As you think the bump in your husband's nose, which you initially considered awkward and wished away, the most beautiful feature any face could have, because it is his nose on his face. Because you are you, because it is it, that is love. The Thing In Itself. It-ness of it. Quiddity.
Donald is Donald, the thing in itself, beginning with its own quaint and dated syllable, tumbling over the hill of the n, rumpling into the nd at its base. It is everything it is, ancient, Scottish, both craggy and cushy at once. It is The Thing In Itself, its proclaims its donaldicity to the listening hills, birth certificates, gravestones, driver's licenses, report cards, signatures. It is nothing but itself.
If you go to honor someone using their name, it must be because your love for their name has overflowed from your love of the person. The person's quiddity. You must fiercely love the quiddity of Donald or to use it means nothing, and to use it in some horrible modern compromise-bastardization means absolutely nothing at all. Brydon takes everything which is Donaldic about Donald and washes it away. It is like Heidi Montag's plastic surgery. Worse, even. It's like on sims where you have randomized to come up with a cool face with a wonky nose and big lips and skinny eyebrows, and then click on the first default face and watch it spring and wobble back to a completely inoffensive, anonymous shape. And you call it the same Sim because it's wearing the same clothes as before. Brydon is nothing, it does not exist, it is like an empty chip bag. It is a name, a non-name, borne out of two compromises - three if you count the one to the stupid whims of modern fashion. It is like staying at home and doing nothing. It is like not using a middle name at all.
One must have courage. Brydon is not Donald. It is not Bryon. It is not honoring at all. It has made honoring a slave to the parents aesthetic preferences, which is not honoring at all. Have you ever had something published and, when you read it, found that it had been edited without your authorization to take out all of the interesting parts, all of your stylistic quirks, all of the quiddity of your work, but kept your name on it? That is Brydon.
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Awesome.
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Brilliant. I've always hated the concept of "honoring" without using the name itself, but I was never able to express it the way that you did, nor even come close. May I copy and paste this every time someone makes an "I want to honor but I hate the name" post?
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What if the person you wish to honour
hates/hated his/her own name though? Then what? Would you find out what the person would have rather been called and use that?
hates/hated his/her own name though? Then what? Would you find out what the person would have rather been called and use that?
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That might be an interesting approach to it.
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My mom wanted to name my sister Adele after my grandmother Adele, but she hated her name so much she protested loudly against the notion. So instead she got Anna, after an Ann, who remained chuffed her whole life that her great granddaughter had gotten her name. *shrug*
I dunno what I would do. It would depend on a lot of factors I don't have privy to right now.
I dunno what I would do. It would depend on a lot of factors I don't have privy to right now.
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Ah, well, I have experience of this. Which I have stated here before. I think more than once. But I don't remind repeating it. Which should come as no surprise to anyone who knows me.
My mom's name was Zoe and she hated her name with a passion. I was very well aware of the fact that she hated her name, but nonetheless I gave my daughter the middle name of Zoe, without consulting my mother. My mother was very pleased by this, and I can still remember the tears coming into her eyes at my daughter's christening when the minister said the name, "Victoria Zoe."
I've read posts in which it's stated, "But I don't think my grandma would have wanted me to use her name because she hated it." So I point out to the poster that, due to my own experience, I know that it is not a given that a person who hates his or her own name would object to its use for honoring purposes.
No, I wouldn't find out what the person would rather have been called and use that. I assume my mother loved the girls' names she used, which were Linda, Janice, Patricia, and Pamela, and would most likely rather have been called one of those than Zoe. But I wouldn't use any of those, of course...that would be honoring my sisters or myself rather than my mom. Not something I'd do in any case, anyway.
You know, I'm stubborn enough anyway, that I know if my mother *had* told me not use her name because she hated it, I would have done it anyway. I'd had it planned since I was fourteen years old, and she wasn't going to talk me out of it.
My mom's name was Zoe and she hated her name with a passion. I was very well aware of the fact that she hated her name, but nonetheless I gave my daughter the middle name of Zoe, without consulting my mother. My mother was very pleased by this, and I can still remember the tears coming into her eyes at my daughter's christening when the minister said the name, "Victoria Zoe."
I've read posts in which it's stated, "But I don't think my grandma would have wanted me to use her name because she hated it." So I point out to the poster that, due to my own experience, I know that it is not a given that a person who hates his or her own name would object to its use for honoring purposes.
No, I wouldn't find out what the person would rather have been called and use that. I assume my mother loved the girls' names she used, which were Linda, Janice, Patricia, and Pamela, and would most likely rather have been called one of those than Zoe. But I wouldn't use any of those, of course...that would be honoring my sisters or myself rather than my mom. Not something I'd do in any case, anyway.
You know, I'm stubborn enough anyway, that I know if my mother *had* told me not use her name because she hated it, I would have done it anyway. I'd had it planned since I was fourteen years old, and she wasn't going to talk me out of it.
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Hell yeeaaahhhh
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Yup! That's why I don't care what people say about Barbara:-) I love it because I loved the person whose name it was and I'm going to use it (I have grown to like the name itself now, but I never even gave it a though when I decided this back when I was 10). I even don't care if she gets called Bara or Barica (which are extremely dated and dowdy here) because that's what my grandma was called.
And also why I'm now set on Ana-Sofia for a second daughter. I was trying to get around using Ana (the other grandmother, but it was VERY popular in my generation and it was a constant classic) with Anika or Anja, etc., but her name was Ana so I think I'll keep it as is (she can use the others as a nickname if she wants one day).
And also why I'm now set on Ana-Sofia for a second daughter. I was trying to get around using Ana (the other grandmother, but it was VERY popular in my generation and it was a constant classic) with Anika or Anja, etc., but her name was Ana so I think I'll keep it as is (she can use the others as a nickname if she wants one day).
This message was edited 9/10/2010, 6:32 AM
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I want to marry you and have babies.
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This is a truly wonderful message, which should appear in neon lights outside - no, dammit, inside! - every maternity ward on the planet. Thank you!
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If she doesn't want to honour Donald correctly then she should just come up with another middle name entirely. Brydon is atrocious and passing it off as an honouring name is a joke.
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Aw, Donald is a fine upstanding kilt-wearing claymore-swinger of a name. You must persuade her of its beauty! Agree that Something Donald Bryon or Something Bryon Donald would be much more handsome than Brydon.
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Just ducky! ;)
Can't help it; the duck is always the first to come to mind. Despite this, I still think Donald a solid, respectable name...albeit one I'll never be in love with.
Having said that, I've just reminded myself of swooning over Donny Osmond, and his name is Donald. Can I swoon over Donald if I picture Donny? Hmmm....nope, it's just not happening.
For honoring and use as a middle name, I don't see any reason to change Donald. If I absolutely had to change it, I do consider choosing a name of the same meaning to be a legitimate form of honoring.
Brydon...creative attempt but doesn't properly honor Donald, in my opinion. It probably *would* fit right in with the trends but, please no.
Can't help it; the duck is always the first to come to mind. Despite this, I still think Donald a solid, respectable name...albeit one I'll never be in love with.
Having said that, I've just reminded myself of swooning over Donny Osmond, and his name is Donald. Can I swoon over Donald if I picture Donny? Hmmm....nope, it's just not happening.
For honoring and use as a middle name, I don't see any reason to change Donald. If I absolutely had to change it, I do consider choosing a name of the same meaning to be a legitimate form of honoring.
Brydon...creative attempt but doesn't properly honor Donald, in my opinion. It probably *would* fit right in with the trends but, please no.
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First real actor that pops into my head is Don Knots. More likely to make me chuckle than swoon.
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Could you possibly talk her into using Donald?
Not only is Brydon really horrible, but it certainly doesn't honor the Donalds, IMO. The "don" part isn't even pronounced the same, at least the way I would pronounce Brydon.
Anyway, honoring means using the exact same name, or something so close it's hardly distinguishable. (Steven instead of Stephen, or Anne instead of Ann! Nothing else, please!)
Not only is Brydon really horrible, but it certainly doesn't honor the Donalds, IMO. The "don" part isn't even pronounced the same, at least the way I would pronounce Brydon.
Anyway, honoring means using the exact same name, or something so close it's hardly distinguishable. (Steven instead of Stephen, or Anne instead of Ann! Nothing else, please!)
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If you want to honor someone with the name, then you should use the exact name. anything else isn't honoring if you ask me. It's like saying "well, I wanted to honor you but, yeah, I dislike your name. So I went with Brydon instead, but it still honors you!"
So thats what I would tell my friend.
So thats what I would tell my friend.
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I sound like a broken record with this, I know.....but if she wants to honor Donalds then she should use Donald as a middle name! So what if she doesn't like it? That's what the middle name slot is for...to use a name for honoring purposes that one wouldn't use as a first name, maybe because one hates it!
I didn't like Zoe when I gave it my daughter as a middle name and my husband always hated it. But I wanted to honor my mother and my grandmother, so Zoe it was, and he understood. I didn't use Eve because it means the same thing. That kind of thing drives me nuts.
Why do people try so hard to have it both ways?
(Though I did make an exception for Sela\Peter below...not sure why...that one struck my fancy.)
I think that if she wants to honor both Donald and Bryon she should use both names...the kid can have two middle names. My younger grandson does, because there were two names my daughter wanted to use for honoring purposes.
I didn't like Zoe when I gave it my daughter as a middle name and my husband always hated it. But I wanted to honor my mother and my grandmother, so Zoe it was, and he understood. I didn't use Eve because it means the same thing. That kind of thing drives me nuts.
Why do people try so hard to have it both ways?
(Though I did make an exception for Sela\Peter below...not sure why...that one struck my fancy.)
I think that if she wants to honor both Donald and Bryon she should use both names...the kid can have two middle names. My younger grandson does, because there were two names my daughter wanted to use for honoring purposes.
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Bryon Donald would flow ok
and it wouldn't look tacky like Brydon.
and it wouldn't look tacky like Brydon.
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Brydon has that horrid trendy preppy feel to it... and it's uglier than Donald, which I'm fairly neutral on.
How's Donnegan? or Donovan? Still have that Don concept happening, but w/ a dif. feel to it. Do they know for sure already that it's a boy?
Just not Brydon. It's so ugly.
How's Donnegan? or Donovan? Still have that Don concept happening, but w/ a dif. feel to it. Do they know for sure already that it's a boy?
Just not Brydon. It's so ugly.
This message was edited 9/9/2010, 8:20 AM
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noooo
Brydon over Donald?! My heart! It breaks! I love Donald. Dang. I don't usually insist on strict honouring, but when both grandfathers are named Donald, I'd say this is one time when being inventive just won't do. She could use the Truman's trick and just use the letter D, like Harry S. Truman's S is just an S.
I am sad. Brydon over Donald. Brydon would be ok, it would fit right in these days.
Brydon over Donald?! My heart! It breaks! I love Donald. Dang. I don't usually insist on strict honouring, but when both grandfathers are named Donald, I'd say this is one time when being inventive just won't do. She could use the Truman's trick and just use the letter D, like Harry S. Truman's S is just an S.
I am sad. Brydon over Donald. Brydon would be ok, it would fit right in these days.
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I agree with you. What on earth is Brydon? This is the type of 'honouring' that people do when they want to feel like they've done something but nobody they're honouring ends up really feeling it.
If you can't stand Donald then scrap the idea.
If you can't stand Donald then scrap the idea.
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