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HelpRe: WDYTO Madoc?
in reply to a message by Anneza
Gay used to mean happy.
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Meanings change. Consider a word like "silly". That's one reason why I don't get as exercised as many people here about the probable original meaning of Katharine, for instance ... enough people have been happy to believe that it means "pure" for it to have acquired that meaning. It's interesting to know the whole story, but it's not relevant to today's world unless one is a dedicated lover of etymologies.
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That would be interesting to learn though... (I'm a linguist)
Of course, gay does still technically mean happy... It's just also acquired a technical slang meaning as well.
Curious then... from a linguist's and etymologist's perspective... Since Jocelyn has taken on a different meaning in a hispanic folkculture context to what it originally was, does that mean the folkmeaning should also be considered valid in your opinion since that has been ascribed to it in a particular culture?
Of course, gay does still technically mean happy... It's just also acquired a technical slang meaning as well.
Curious then... from a linguist's and etymologist's perspective... Since Jocelyn has taken on a different meaning in a hispanic folkculture context to what it originally was, does that mean the folkmeaning should also be considered valid in your opinion since that has been ascribed to it in a particular culture?
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I think it's unlikely that people will use "gay" now unless they mean "homosexual", and I think it's a pity because the language has been diminished. There isn't an exact synonym for the "old" meaning of "gay". And we don't know exactly how old the slang meaning is, but we do know that now it's very powerful. Try singing the original version of "London Bridge is falling down" ... "with a gay lady" ... and see how people react. They won't assume she's cheerful!
I wish I knew what Jocelyn has become in Hispanic folk culture. But here in South Africa we just don't have a big enough Hispanic population ... a Portuguese community, yes, but I've never encountered Jocelyn in use among them.
I don't think it's possible to ignore a powerful belief (ascribed meaning) about a name. Whatever that meaning is, it's part of the meaning people experience when they hear or see that name. And it will change. When Shirley Temple was a child star, her name seemed appropriate for little girls, but now that they've all aged, it has changed its perceived meaning to "suitable for grandmothers". Nothing to do with bright clearings in a forest! That meaning still exists, but the folk meaning is more powerful.
Of course, you've got to say what your intentions are: if you focus on etymology, it wouldn't be appropriate to add in a more sociolinguistic perspective without making it clear that you know what you're doing.
I wish I knew what Jocelyn has become in Hispanic folk culture. But here in South Africa we just don't have a big enough Hispanic population ... a Portuguese community, yes, but I've never encountered Jocelyn in use among them.
I don't think it's possible to ignore a powerful belief (ascribed meaning) about a name. Whatever that meaning is, it's part of the meaning people experience when they hear or see that name. And it will change. When Shirley Temple was a child star, her name seemed appropriate for little girls, but now that they've all aged, it has changed its perceived meaning to "suitable for grandmothers". Nothing to do with bright clearings in a forest! That meaning still exists, but the folk meaning is more powerful.
Of course, you've got to say what your intentions are: if you focus on etymology, it wouldn't be appropriate to add in a more sociolinguistic perspective without making it clear that you know what you're doing.
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