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HelpKoen vs. Cohen
I know many people find Cohen to be offensive. What about the Dutch version of Koen? It means "Bold and Daring". I really like the meaning. If a dutch person (with a clearly Dutch ln), such as my husband, named his son Koen, would that still be found offensive?
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If I were you...
I'd name my kid whatever I wanted. People are naming their daughters Gypsy these days and no one says a word, but Cohen is offensive? I don't understand that logic. The name Jude could also be considered a racial term, but that's currently a favorite here on the board. I just don't get it.
If you are concerned about controversy, though, you could always go with an alternate spelling; Koen isn't bad, but maybe Kohen would be good, too. I kinda like that spelling. :)
I'd name my kid whatever I wanted. People are naming their daughters Gypsy these days and no one says a word, but Cohen is offensive? I don't understand that logic. The name Jude could also be considered a racial term, but that's currently a favorite here on the board. I just don't get it.
If you are concerned about controversy, though, you could always go with an alternate spelling; Koen isn't bad, but maybe Kohen would be good, too. I kinda like that spelling. :)
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I'd consider Gypsy offensive
jude borderline
jude borderline
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Ditto.
And utterly ridic.
Jude as racist? How so? I've never heard Jude as a racist term. Wop, Chink, Nigger, Gyp, Jap - those are offensive. Jude? How?
And utterly ridic.
Jude as racist? How so? I've never heard Jude as a racist term. Wop, Chink, Nigger, Gyp, Jap - those are offensive. Jude? How?
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Jude...
pronounced Yoo-deh is the German word for "jew"...but I don't really think that makes it offensive. After all it was a biblical name and is pronounced differently in English.
pronounced Yoo-deh is the German word for "jew"...but I don't really think that makes it offensive. After all it was a biblical name and is pronounced differently in English.
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When I first heard Jude as a name, 'Jew' was the first thing I thought. I thought it was a really really weird word to use as a name. Now I've come accustomed to seeing it used, but I think a lot of people would still find it odd or yes, maybe even offensive.
Oh and, don't forget, English isn't the only language out there. So just because something isn't a racist term to you, doesn't mean it's not a racist term to anyone else...
Oh and, don't forget, English isn't the only language out there. So just because something isn't a racist term to you, doesn't mean it's not a racist term to anyone else...
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Its the German word for Jew
I think that's probably the only reason. And since WWII is over and no one's got to wear it pinned to their clothes, it's not really an issue.
I think that's probably the only reason. And since WWII is over and no one's got to wear it pinned to their clothes, it's not really an issue.
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http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/1052/493260.JPG
Jude literally means "jew" doesn't it?
I am also not sure, but I think I have read somewhere that the name Judah predates the term Jew/Jude. Someone else almost anyone else would be able to clarify this though.
Jude literally means "jew" doesn't it?
I am also not sure, but I think I have read somewhere that the name Judah predates the term Jew/Jude. Someone else almost anyone else would be able to clarify this though.
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I was typing up a big, long, overly complicated message that only half made sense to me, then I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_the_word_Jew
But no, Jude doesn't literally mean Jew. Jude is from Yehudah, from which Judah is also derived, which means 'praise; thanks'. How Jude/Judah came to refer to Jews is another story.
However, the German word for Jew is Jude. In that sense, yes, it literally means Jew.
But no, Jude doesn't literally mean Jew. Jude is from Yehudah, from which Judah is also derived, which means 'praise; thanks'. How Jude/Judah came to refer to Jews is another story.
However, the German word for Jew is Jude. In that sense, yes, it literally means Jew.
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I am not sure how American families whose last name is spelled Koen usually pronounce it, but using the Dutch pronunciation for that name in the USA would be bound to cause some problems. The child would have to constantly be correcting people as to his name's pronunciation.
You could always use Cowan, which is pronounced almost the same way as Cohen.
It should be pointed out that though the great majority of people with the surname Cohen are of Jewish ancestry, Cohen is also an Irish surname with a completely different derivation. There are Irish families named Cohen who have no Jewish ancestry. So it's not really an exclusively Jewish name.
You could always use Cowan, which is pronounced almost the same way as Cohen.
It should be pointed out that though the great majority of people with the surname Cohen are of Jewish ancestry, Cohen is also an Irish surname with a completely different derivation. There are Irish families named Cohen who have no Jewish ancestry. So it's not really an exclusively Jewish name.
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As a Dutch name that has nothing to with Cohen, I guess it's fine for Dutch people to use Koen but I don't think it's a very attractive name in other languages.
As Cohen goes, I personally don't find offensive. It's a Jewish surname, that's all, I don't think all the people whose surname is Cohen are necessarily very conscious of their priestly status. But as a given name, I find it ridiculous, you might as well name a child Greenblatt or Goldnagel.
As Cohen goes, I personally don't find offensive. It's a Jewish surname, that's all, I don't think all the people whose surname is Cohen are necessarily very conscious of their priestly status. But as a given name, I find it ridiculous, you might as well name a child Greenblatt or Goldnagel.
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I don't think it's offensive
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Question: Why is Cohen considered offensive?
I'm guessing it's some biblical reason? I'm sorry - I'm confused!
I'm guessing it's some biblical reason? I'm sorry - I'm confused!
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I don't think the point of the discussion was that Jews would be offended if non-Jews use Cohen simply because it was Jewish. I think the point that was attempting to be conveyed was that the Kohanim were descendants of Aaron who held a special role within the Temple (the Temple is sacred to Jews) and performed duties sacred to Jews, and it would therefore be an affront to the Jewish people to use a name associated with such a history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohanim
This message was edited 8/23/2008, 1:29 PM
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Okay, that makes a bit more sense. But am I the only one that thinks that there are people that tend to get offended a bit too easily? Anyway, thanks for clearing it up for me :)
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No prob. :) I personally am not offended by someone using Cohen as a firstname, but I'm Reform. I'd love to hear opinions from the Charedim on the matter.
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What I don't get, is that when people use it as a name they think about it as just a surname. I seriously doubt all of the people whose surname is Cohen are necessarily so conscious of what it implies. I had a relative by marriage with this surname who married a Christian and was generally quite secular. I also don't get why Levi isn't considered offensive at this point, aren't Levites also of priestly descent?
I'm not advocating the use of Cohen as a first name btw, offensive or not offensive I find it horrid as a given name.
I'm not advocating the use of Cohen as a first name btw, offensive or not offensive I find it horrid as a given name.
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If we're determining offensiveness using the criteria that has been established for finding Cohen offensive, then Levi would be considered an offending name also.
In regards to Levi, there is some debate that the name has rather sexual connotations, symbolising his mother's hope that Yaakov would...not neglect his marital duties. :)
In regards to Levi, there is some debate that the name has rather sexual connotations, symbolising his mother's hope that Yaakov would...not neglect his marital duties. :)
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It's an interesting question
As a Christian the only name that I find offensive is Calvary (I still cannot believe I found someone who would actually USE it) and that's it. Madonna is a bit...over-the-top but not offensive to me.
I've always stayed away from both names as a sign of respect, merely because of the arguments that a former member made - Miss/Mrs Claire. You might want to search out her posts.
As a Christian the only name that I find offensive is Calvary (I still cannot believe I found someone who would actually USE it) and that's it. Madonna is a bit...over-the-top but not offensive to me.
I've always stayed away from both names as a sign of respect, merely because of the arguments that a former member made - Miss/Mrs Claire. You might want to search out her posts.
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I'm kind of embarrassed that that was MY message!
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Why? Have you changed your mind since?
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I'm embarrassed...
No. I'm embarrassed because I've caused an argument!
No. I'm embarrassed because I've caused an argument!
This message was edited 8/23/2008, 12:34 PM
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Don't worry
People cause arguments here all the time. I guess we've all seen worse.
People cause arguments here all the time. I guess we've all seen worse.
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Something to do with it being a Jewish surname.
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Koen is better, provided you don't pronounce it like Cohen.
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Cohen and Koen are not pronounced the same
Koen is KOON not KO-un, if he has a very Dutch LN, I think it's strange to say KO-un (but of course, I am Dutch). Having said that, I quite like Koen, I like it better than Cohen, because it's meant to be a FN and not a LN like Cohen is. Also another way spelling Koen in Dutch is Coen, if you're looking for an alternative to Cohen, maybe that's an idea as well.
Koen is KOON not KO-un, if he has a very Dutch LN, I think it's strange to say KO-un (but of course, I am Dutch). Having said that, I quite like Koen, I like it better than Cohen, because it's meant to be a FN and not a LN like Cohen is. Also another way spelling Koen in Dutch is Coen, if you're looking for an alternative to Cohen, maybe that's an idea as well.
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Koen looks weird and I want to say "KOHN". Cohen looks much nicer but I wouldn't use either of them.
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1. I don't find Cohen offensive. It's just a Jewish surname.
2. Koen is pronounced "Koon"
3. No, it would not be offensive.
2. Koen is pronounced "Koon"
3. No, it would not be offensive.
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