[Opinions] Renee vs Renée
Hey guys,
To preference, I am a fan of spelling names only the proper original way. I really like follow entomology and do not like spelling variations. Is Renne (without the accent mark) really an English name, or (considering my tastes to stick with the original) is in the incomplete French name - Renée?
I’m finding it hard to believe it’s the English version. I feel we are too quick to accent the variations into our databases.
Thanks!
To preference, I am a fan of spelling names only the proper original way. I really like follow entomology and do not like spelling variations. Is Renne (without the accent mark) really an English name, or (considering my tastes to stick with the original) is in the incomplete French name - Renée?
I’m finding it hard to believe it’s the English version. I feel we are too quick to accent the variations into our databases.
Thanks!
Replies
Thanks everyone who responded. I wanted to express some rigidity in order to get some real arguments on whether my opinion could be changed in Renee, and it has. I can see now that the spelling without the accent mark is valid, as with some of the other examples given.
- Cakes
- Cakes
Accent marks aren't even allowed on birth certificates in some (most?) US states. That makes it not French (because, we write in English officially here?) but obviously derived from French; a name (or word for that matter) isn't incomplete just because it's derived from a word. Words change depending on how they're used and who by; it's just a thing? Like if someone wanted to use Renaissance as an English name (then perhaps "Renai" as a NN) and claim it was meant as a version of Renata, they could, but it's not as direct a connection as Renee seems.
This message was edited 11/11/2022, 4:39 PM
I prefer Renée, but if you are called Renée where I live it will be defaulted to Renee in a LOT of scenarios. I guess you could say Renee is a typo or a common mistake, but it's so common that most people view it as a legitimate variant rather than a mistake. It's normal for a name to have different spellings in different languages, even if it's the same pronunciations (although usually the pronunciation changes too, like Martin and Martín. But with Renée and Renee, the pronunciation is already different because of the R, so it's not even a case of "same pronunciation different spelling".)
é is not a character in the alphabet used in English, so Renee is transliteration.
If transliterations to English are not real English names, then Katherine, Alexander ... zillions of English names are all to be defenestrated?
I guess that what bothers you is that the transliteration is of a name that is a word in modern French?
Compare Ariel ... when it is written like so, not written with Hebrew characters, is it not still a proper original name in English? Since it literally means lion of God in Hebrew, but "Ariel" doesn't have any English meaning.
Or, is it because you are biased against borrowing to English in particular? Would it bother you to see the name Liv transliterated to Hebrew and used as a name in Israel? It's on the most popular names list. (Maybe it's also a word in Hebrew, but not to my knowledge. Someone inform me if so, I'm curious)
Anyway, to me Renee is a legit English name - it's just especially obvious that it's transliterated from French, because of the relationship between the letters é and e. A lot is lost in borrowed terms between languages. They take on a meaning in the new language without carrying any of the literal meaning in the original one. Or often the grammar, or spelling, or pronunciation. Renee is just a name ... names don't have literal meanings except academically. They refer to people, right? So who cares if an English speaker's name means reborn in French? It's not appropriate to address her as Reborn because that's more "correct." It's incorrect.
You are welcome always to back-transliterate the name of every Renee you ever meet, to Renée, and to pronounce it correctly as the word "reborn" in French. As French speakers usually do, inoffensively, when they encounter a name that has an equivalent in French. What good does it do you, or anyone, to find fault with the English name Renee in general?
If transliterations to English are not real English names, then Katherine, Alexander ... zillions of English names are all to be defenestrated?
I guess that what bothers you is that the transliteration is of a name that is a word in modern French?
Compare Ariel ... when it is written like so, not written with Hebrew characters, is it not still a proper original name in English? Since it literally means lion of God in Hebrew, but "Ariel" doesn't have any English meaning.
Or, is it because you are biased against borrowing to English in particular? Would it bother you to see the name Liv transliterated to Hebrew and used as a name in Israel? It's on the most popular names list. (Maybe it's also a word in Hebrew, but not to my knowledge. Someone inform me if so, I'm curious)
Anyway, to me Renee is a legit English name - it's just especially obvious that it's transliterated from French, because of the relationship between the letters é and e. A lot is lost in borrowed terms between languages. They take on a meaning in the new language without carrying any of the literal meaning in the original one. Or often the grammar, or spelling, or pronunciation. Renee is just a name ... names don't have literal meanings except academically. They refer to people, right? So who cares if an English speaker's name means reborn in French? It's not appropriate to address her as Reborn because that's more "correct." It's incorrect.
You are welcome always to back-transliterate the name of every Renee you ever meet, to Renée, and to pronounce it correctly as the word "reborn" in French. As French speakers usually do, inoffensively, when they encounter a name that has an equivalent in French. What good does it do you, or anyone, to find fault with the English name Renee in general?
This message was edited 11/10/2022, 7:14 PM
ליב (Liv/Lib) is the Yiddish word for "love", so that might account for its popularity in Israel.
Renee - without the accent mark - charts in the US and the UK, so yes, it is an English name.
Surely there must be some limits? Or would you insist on Shlomo rather than Solomon? And what about Beatrice: would you be OK with it, or might you insist on Viatrix? You're welcome to do so, of course, but others are equally welcome not to. The days of prescriptive grammar are gone.
I knew a Renee at school: her names were Suzanne Renee but she went by her mn and with that spelling. We called her RENay, and so did her mother, but her husband preferred reNAY and she didn't mind.
I knew a Renee at school: her names were Suzanne Renee but she went by her mn and with that spelling. We called her RENay, and so did her mother, but her husband preferred reNAY and she didn't mind.
I prefer Renee but if you prefer the French way stick with it, here accents are rarely used
Hopefully you all realize I did a typo in my original message!
RENEE, not RENNE. :-)
RENEE, not RENNE. :-)
I also think that Renee is a English name.
I think Renee is better because I am English and only choose the French one if your French
I am strictly asking about the true proper origins of the name. Née means, -born- in French, it’s a French verb. I do not believe ‘Nee’ means -born- in English. ‘Nee,’ would be essentially a French verb/word that is misspelled when you leave the accent out.
So I think you are incorrect in your belief that Renee is indeed an English name. Asking the true history buffs and orgin buffs. I realize that baby naming sites and very quick to accept the English ‘butchering’ of names that originated from other languages as official and true.
I know I may sound a little harsh, but I want to be clear on my puritan nature when it comes to the etymology of names. To me, it’s a butchered French name when the accent of left out. I’m looking for very researched proof to the contrary. Not subjective opinion.
Thanks!
So I think you are incorrect in your belief that Renee is indeed an English name. Asking the true history buffs and orgin buffs. I realize that baby naming sites and very quick to accept the English ‘butchering’ of names that originated from other languages as official and true.
I know I may sound a little harsh, but I want to be clear on my puritan nature when it comes to the etymology of names. To me, it’s a butchered French name when the accent of left out. I’m looking for very researched proof to the contrary. Not subjective opinion.
Thanks!
It's an English name of French origin. Things don't get "butchered" when they get adjusted by cultures in ways that reflect their updated use.
An English name is what, exactly? Surely it's a name used by English-speaking people when they are speaking English. What else could it be - there aren't enough Anglo-Saxon names to go around, simply because they have dropped out of use. People have preferred other versions or other names with other etymologies. English people, in general, not sure about the US, know about how French words have a different rhythm and how the French R has a different sound, and if they are speaking French they will try to respect this. But a name like Renee, or indeed Isabel rather than or as well as Isabelle, when used by English people in an Anglophone environment, will look (no accent) and sound (English R, not French; one syllable emphasised) appropriately English. If you want evidence for what you believe, you'll have to find it for yourself. The evidence which actually exists, in English birth-name lists for instance, points the other way. I think you are creating problems for yourself where none exist.
Accent marks aren't typically used in places like the U.S. You won't find those accented characters on a standard computer keyboard, and that sort. They aren't never used, but they do make having to type out someone's name a bit more challenging, along with just having to generally write it out. One reason why names such the aforementioned Renee, or even Desiree are often written as such. A butchered spelling would be something more like Ranay or Dezirae.
This message was edited 11/10/2022, 8:19 PM
Sorry since I am 10 I have no idea what u mean.
I have a daughter who is 10. I think it's really cool that you're interested in names at your age.