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Help[Facts] Re: Does Melvin come from Maethelwine
in reply to a message by EncyclopediaBrown
The Germanic name Mathalwin is definitely attested and existed in medieval times in Germany (I have no data on Old English nor Old Norse at my hands, it is not in the Domesday book and all names starting in Madal- currently on dmnes.org are Germanic names from today's France). However, some connection to Melvin must be made (either by continuous use and survival in some local pockets, by being the name of a saint, or by revival in a literary work). We need to find the missing link or we are stuck here.
And than, there is the unrelated name Malvina introduced by James MacPherson. And another unrelated, but similar sounding name is the Spanish term for the Falkland Islands: Islas Malvinas. The archipelago is named after the French harbour St. Malo.
--elbowin
And than, there is the unrelated name Malvina introduced by James MacPherson. And another unrelated, but similar sounding name is the Spanish term for the Falkland Islands: Islas Malvinas. The archipelago is named after the French harbour St. Malo.
--elbowin
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Replies
I'm glad to hear that Mathalwin existed. I thought that possibly the name Mathalwin was contracted at the time that many Old English and Germanic names were simplified from their original forms, I think around the time of the Norman conquest. I figured if it was simplified, it seems like it would likely be turned into Malvin or Melvin. I can't see any other ways that Mathalwin could be contracted and still keep the same elements intact.
Nevertheless, all of that is just speculation, there's no way to prove it at the moment. It seems to me like it may still be a possibility that Melvin was at one point derived from Mathalwin in certain regions, but no way to know for sure yet. What do you think?
Thanks for the extra links too! That's some really interesting information about Malvina and the Falkland islands. I found out that Saint Malo's name came from the Breton elements "mach" meaning "pledge, hostage, warrant" and "loh" meaning "light, brilliant, bright, beautiful". From the definitions of the elements that make it up, it seems that it's also a Breton translation of the Germanic Gilbert.
Nevertheless, all of that is just speculation, there's no way to prove it at the moment. It seems to me like it may still be a possibility that Melvin was at one point derived from Mathalwin in certain regions, but no way to know for sure yet. What do you think?
Thanks for the extra links too! That's some really interesting information about Malvina and the Falkland islands. I found out that Saint Malo's name came from the Breton elements "mach" meaning "pledge, hostage, warrant" and "loh" meaning "light, brilliant, bright, beautiful". From the definitions of the elements that make it up, it seems that it's also a Breton translation of the Germanic Gilbert.
This message was edited 5/15/2019, 12:48 AM
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English/Scots Mæðelwine to Melvin certainly follows the pattern of Latinisation in the late Imperial/Frankish period. |ð| and |þ| would become |d/t| or be syncopated altogether (since it's a difficult and unusual phoneme that does not occur in the Latin and early Romance languages of the period, nor in the Southern Germanic languages, and isn't consistently found in all Greek dialects, some of which have |f| instead - it's no coincidence that it occurs in both the English and Welsh languages however, the latter with different orthography). Latin "v", representing allophones of |u| including a phoneme close to |w| in classical Latin, split into the familiar |v| and |u| from the 2nd Century, and spread North into the Germanic languages (excluding English and a few Swedish dialects). Melvin isn't so much a shortening, as a plausible Latin pronunciation.
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This was really informative, and I'm glad to learn this information. Thanks thegriffon!
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