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Help[Facts] Re: Derivation of the names Hannah and Ian
in reply to a message by MG
I highly doubt that any prebiblical text exists which mentions either of these ancient Hebrew names (Hannah, and Yohanan/John), and you are probably not going to be able to research this much further. At the least, however, Hannah and John are two entirely separate names, and the earlier recorded form is Hannah.
Your acquaintance's comment does not make much sense. Does s/he believe that every ancient female name necessarily derived from an even older male name? And it is certainly a verifiable fact that the name Ann vastly predates Ian.
Your acquaintance's comment does not make much sense. Does s/he believe that every ancient female name necessarily derived from an even older male name? And it is certainly a verifiable fact that the name Ann vastly predates Ian.
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Surely both names are equally old, at least as far as we can tell.
The name Hannah appears in 1st Samuel 1-2, and various Yohanans/Johanans gets passing mentions in 2nd Kings, 1st & 2nd Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah and Jeremiah.
The oldest copies of any of these we have are the Dead Sea Scrolls, which date from 200BCE. Textual analysis can give us an idea on the order the books were written, but bear in mind that heavy editing has taken place throughout the bible's history, particularly during the Babylonian Exile. Therefore, I think we should be careful about assuming that a name that appears earlier in the Bible was recorded earlier.
The name Hannah appears in 1st Samuel 1-2, and various Yohanans/Johanans gets passing mentions in 2nd Kings, 1st & 2nd Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah and Jeremiah.
The oldest copies of any of these we have are the Dead Sea Scrolls, which date from 200BCE. Textual analysis can give us an idea on the order the books were written, but bear in mind that heavy editing has taken place throughout the bible's history, particularly during the Babylonian Exile. Therefore, I think we should be careful about assuming that a name that appears earlier in the Bible was recorded earlier.
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Good evening,
And thank you both for responding.
In answer to your question Claudia, in this case, is Yes, he does believe the biblical reference that the advent of female is entirely due and, from Male. As I said, he is a twit! The one thing learnt as a child was, that names were not arbitrary, they were representative or, descriptive, of the Person, meaning, the person Gave the name its value. Hannah prayed often for a child and, promised that if blessed, she would then give the up. She was blessed with a child but, rather than Hannah being defined as "Blessed" it was defined as "Favour" meaning God favoured her.
This being said, one has to ask, "well, what had the name meant PRIOR to this?" And herein lies my first problem with the association to either John or Ian, that the name HAD no relationship to God, grace or Favour, prior to this! That said, invalidates any claim that, because John (Ian) refer to also to a blessing from God, that these two names are, in any way, related. This was the point which had been missed. I did not wish to rely solely on this piece of logic, but, on a date of use showing irrefutably that, which name came into use first, Hannah or John.
As I said, John appears far later in the scripture but, this does not mean that this is when it came into being. And this is precisely what I wished to know, is there a reference which can clearly date either name.
I must agree with you, there is, quite possibly, no means through which this question can be answered barring a seance. (And please forgive, no intent to hurt or harm meant.)
Cheers,
MG
And thank you both for responding.
In answer to your question Claudia, in this case, is Yes, he does believe the biblical reference that the advent of female is entirely due and, from Male. As I said, he is a twit! The one thing learnt as a child was, that names were not arbitrary, they were representative or, descriptive, of the Person, meaning, the person Gave the name its value. Hannah prayed often for a child and, promised that if blessed, she would then give the up. She was blessed with a child but, rather than Hannah being defined as "Blessed" it was defined as "Favour" meaning God favoured her.
This being said, one has to ask, "well, what had the name meant PRIOR to this?" And herein lies my first problem with the association to either John or Ian, that the name HAD no relationship to God, grace or Favour, prior to this! That said, invalidates any claim that, because John (Ian) refer to also to a blessing from God, that these two names are, in any way, related. This was the point which had been missed. I did not wish to rely solely on this piece of logic, but, on a date of use showing irrefutably that, which name came into use first, Hannah or John.
As I said, John appears far later in the scripture but, this does not mean that this is when it came into being. And this is precisely what I wished to know, is there a reference which can clearly date either name.
I must agree with you, there is, quite possibly, no means through which this question can be answered barring a seance. (And please forgive, no intent to hurt or harm meant.)
Cheers,
MG
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