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Help[Opinions] Wednesday
Today I finally sat down with my professor that named his daughter Wednesday and talked names with him. I don't really have a nameblog anymore so Ops is what gets my fieldnotes.
Wanna hear??
Okay!
Wednesday - the Addams family was really big in his life
Seven - the second choice, they thought it wouldn't age well
Arwen - LOTR, etc
Rain - partly inspired by a Woody Allen movie
Ach I forget the others! There was at least one more.
The only boys' names he remembered were Beckett (his choice, for Samuel Beckett) and Ian (his wife's choice).
Her middle name is Lyra, for the golden compass character.
They pretty much just call her Wednesday but some of her friends call her Winnie or Winwin
He hates his own name (Stanley). He says it's a loser's name. He says when people forget his name they usually call him Steve and that Steve is a "winner's name" and his life would have been so much better if his name were Steve.
Pretty funny! I don't think Stan is a loser name at all. I think it fits him pretty well! I adore him! He's the best! His kid is gonna be such a goth. She's like 9.
His name choices are interesting because he's a composer, and he's very minimalist and hands-off and doesn't like the idea of forcing the listener to feel something (and hates being forced to feel something), but his daughter's name seems very "hands-on" and laden with expectations.
Wanna hear??
Okay!
Wednesday - the Addams family was really big in his life
Seven - the second choice, they thought it wouldn't age well
Arwen - LOTR, etc
Rain - partly inspired by a Woody Allen movie
Ach I forget the others! There was at least one more.
The only boys' names he remembered were Beckett (his choice, for Samuel Beckett) and Ian (his wife's choice).
Her middle name is Lyra, for the golden compass character.
They pretty much just call her Wednesday but some of her friends call her Winnie or Winwin
He hates his own name (Stanley). He says it's a loser's name. He says when people forget his name they usually call him Steve and that Steve is a "winner's name" and his life would have been so much better if his name were Steve.
Pretty funny! I don't think Stan is a loser name at all. I think it fits him pretty well! I adore him! He's the best! His kid is gonna be such a goth. She's like 9.
His name choices are interesting because he's a composer, and he's very minimalist and hands-off and doesn't like the idea of forcing the listener to feel something (and hates being forced to feel something), but his daughter's name seems very "hands-on" and laden with expectations.
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Replies
Hmm... I guess I'm in the minority, but I think Wednesday is kind of cool. I wouldn't use it, but I think it's neat that they did. Your professor sounds quirky. My English professors insist that being slightly neurotic is an integral part of being an English professor/scholar... maybe this goes for music professors, too.
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Wednesday Lyra is really pretty! Kinda fun that pattern they have with naming their kid after characters.
I think that Stanley is adorable, I would use it and Steve is way too boring for my taste.
I think that Stanley is adorable, I would use it and Steve is way too boring for my taste.
This message was edited 2/15/2012, 11:44 PM
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I really like Wednesday (and nns Win, Winnie, Wendy). I've never been an fan of Lyra and the fact that both Wednesday and Lyra have really strong character references puts the combo over the top IMO.
He seems sort of fake to me- based solely on the juxtaposition of his name choices and his claimed "hands-off" and unobtrusive attitude. Seven, Arwen and Rain all make pretty bold statements on their own and also don't really strike me as "winner's" names. Sweeping statements I know but that's my first reaction.
I dislike both Stanley/Stan and Steve. Steven is doable but Steve, ew (though I've always thought it would make a hilarious pet name)
He seems sort of fake to me- based solely on the juxtaposition of his name choices and his claimed "hands-off" and unobtrusive attitude. Seven, Arwen and Rain all make pretty bold statements on their own and also don't really strike me as "winner's" names. Sweeping statements I know but that's my first reaction.
I dislike both Stanley/Stan and Steve. Steven is doable but Steve, ew (though I've always thought it would make a hilarious pet name)
This message was edited 2/15/2012, 1:35 PM
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Steve is a jerk's name. Everyone knows Stan is where it's at. I even like Wednesday, in theory, though not as much as Sunday through Tuesday.
I'm kind of baffled by this guy, to be honest. How big could the Addams Family be in anyone's life? It was a one-panel comic and a campy, 30-minute TV show. That's like saying Pez dispensers made you who you are or that Mickey Mouse shaped your character. Really? It's like he's either shallow or wants you to think he is.
Anyway, all of his girl name options, with their pop culture and celebrity references, look like deliberate attempts to get attention and provoke strong reactions. It's funny how knowing someone's naming rational can make you wonder about other parts of his life. I wonder if he's honest, professionally, when he claims he doesn't want to force his audience to feel anything. I imagine he wants them to feel impressed.
I'm strangely irritated with this fellow I don't know and will never meet. Maybe he would be a good Steve.
eta: I re-read this, and I was pretty harsh, particularly since you openly admire him, and he's a stranger to me. I apologize, and I'm sure he's full of Stan-ish qualities.
I'm kind of baffled by this guy, to be honest. How big could the Addams Family be in anyone's life? It was a one-panel comic and a campy, 30-minute TV show. That's like saying Pez dispensers made you who you are or that Mickey Mouse shaped your character. Really? It's like he's either shallow or wants you to think he is.
Anyway, all of his girl name options, with their pop culture and celebrity references, look like deliberate attempts to get attention and provoke strong reactions. It's funny how knowing someone's naming rational can make you wonder about other parts of his life. I wonder if he's honest, professionally, when he claims he doesn't want to force his audience to feel anything. I imagine he wants them to feel impressed.
I'm strangely irritated with this fellow I don't know and will never meet. Maybe he would be a good Steve.
eta: I re-read this, and I was pretty harsh, particularly since you openly admire him, and he's a stranger to me. I apologize, and I'm sure he's full of Stan-ish qualities.
This message was edited 2/15/2012, 8:00 AM
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hah. It's okay! I don't really think it would bother him what some strangers on the internet would think of him based on his name choices.
Still, I might have portrayed him a little unfairly... His wife is also a professor, and I was in her class when someone asked her about her daughter's name. When she said "after the Addams family character," I was like, oh come on, BS, you just wanted an edgy name. But, since I like both of them a whole lot, I considered that an unfair judgment. I've been taking one-on-one lessons from her husband this semester so we've had lots of actual conversations. It turns out the Addams family actually was a big part of his life! He says when he came home from school his family was never there and he'd watch them on TV. "Campy TV show" it may be, but it was one of the first instances of a group of ab-normal people he was exposed to and it formed some kind of kernel in his head. He's said several times that Wednesday was like the little sister he always wanted but never had.
I feel like I would be similarly justified in naming a kid Jack after Jack Skellington. It's a hip little name but Nightmare Before Christmas was actually and truly a huge part of my life. I don't have the same orientation towards pop culture as my prof, though. For him it's like an escape, and "honoring" pop culture is much more important to him than honoring family, which he describes as mostly arbitrary. Friendship and taste are more important to him. I don't agree but I think I "get" it and I don't see it as phony at all.
Anyway, he is self-consciously Not Normal, which... I mean, I think it's fine. No worse than being self-consciously normal, and definitely more interesting. He dresses kind of weird, and people snicker about it. I don't think he would be bothered by people thinking he's a poser or attention-seeking or whatever. He's pretty calm and unflappable. I just think he feels particularly bored/oppressed by Normalcy and -- perhaps unfairly -- used his daughter's name as a tool of escapism. His music is somewhat of a different question...
Still, I might have portrayed him a little unfairly... His wife is also a professor, and I was in her class when someone asked her about her daughter's name. When she said "after the Addams family character," I was like, oh come on, BS, you just wanted an edgy name. But, since I like both of them a whole lot, I considered that an unfair judgment. I've been taking one-on-one lessons from her husband this semester so we've had lots of actual conversations. It turns out the Addams family actually was a big part of his life! He says when he came home from school his family was never there and he'd watch them on TV. "Campy TV show" it may be, but it was one of the first instances of a group of ab-normal people he was exposed to and it formed some kind of kernel in his head. He's said several times that Wednesday was like the little sister he always wanted but never had.
I feel like I would be similarly justified in naming a kid Jack after Jack Skellington. It's a hip little name but Nightmare Before Christmas was actually and truly a huge part of my life. I don't have the same orientation towards pop culture as my prof, though. For him it's like an escape, and "honoring" pop culture is much more important to him than honoring family, which he describes as mostly arbitrary. Friendship and taste are more important to him. I don't agree but I think I "get" it and I don't see it as phony at all.
Anyway, he is self-consciously Not Normal, which... I mean, I think it's fine. No worse than being self-consciously normal, and definitely more interesting. He dresses kind of weird, and people snicker about it. I don't think he would be bothered by people thinking he's a poser or attention-seeking or whatever. He's pretty calm and unflappable. I just think he feels particularly bored/oppressed by Normalcy and -- perhaps unfairly -- used his daughter's name as a tool of escapism. His music is somewhat of a different question...
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I'm kinda surprised at how personally threatened some people are by descriptions of your professor! I totally believe that a TV show could be a huge part of someone's life and be full of meaning for them. Why not? Why the hell not. Stuff like that can have enormous symbolism to people. Some of my favourite names are from a children's picture book about dinosaurs for chrissakes, but because they are "more serious" names (less creative I think - I actually disliked them for years) than Wednesday and Lyra, I would come across as a more mature or less attention-whoring for using them? That's BS because anyone who knows me knows that I also crave and admire escapism and find normalcy to be like a form of cowardice and I WISH I had the courage to be a proper attention whore.
DON'T WORRY STAN I UNDERSTAND YOU
DON'T WORRY STAN I UNDERSTAND YOU
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It's a leap from feeling irritated to feeling threatened unless you think I'm worried I might roll my eyes so hard they'll fall out of my head.
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lol! I just think making statements about what kind of person someone is based on their personal aesthetic choices is evidence that something about them makes the critical person feel insecure, that's all. That's why they find it irritating, as opposed to not caring at all.
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understand
heh heh heh
No yeah, it would be more fun, right? Being a proper attention whore. I think you and my prof would probs get along.
heh heh heh
No yeah, it would be more fun, right? Being a proper attention whore. I think you and my prof would probs get along.
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I guess he does not think women benefit from having "winner" names, the way men do? Beckett as a namesake has at least a little gravitas. It boggles me that he thought Wednesday would age any better than Seven. The character was so named presumably because she was "full of woe." The satire is in the banality of it ... as a namesake, it's a joke that backfires. IMHO
Oh, well, her name will get away from him and his conceits, and it's not all that bad, it's pop culture and "cool," and I can feel that.
Oh, well, her name will get away from him and his conceits, and it's not all that bad, it's pop culture and "cool," and I can feel that.
This message was edited 2/15/2012, 12:59 AM
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Hah I think the Stan/Steve thing was more tongue in cheek than I portrayed it.
Yeah I didn't quite follow the Seven logic either. He said it would be cool as a baby, as a kid, as a teenager, as an adult... but as an old lady? "Kind of cool!" I volunteered. Evidently he didn't agree.
I did remark upon how much more conservative the two boys' choices were than the girls' ones. Ian was especially surprising and kind of disappointing, given that it came from his super-feminist wife! She's in tune to all kind of sexism coded in music and scholarship. I guess maybe it does take a namenerd to see that something's a little off about such a solid, conservative boy name next to all of those fanciful girls names. But she probably had her reasons...
Anyway his response to my remarking was to shrug and almost shudder and say that he really hadn't wanted a boy anyway. We didn't talk about it...
I think Wednesday, aside from its self-conscious weirdness (which is to say phonetically, basically), is actually pretty versatile, and would probably oppress a girl who wanted to be normal no less than Ian would oppress a boy who wanted to be weird. But I do think they're fortunate in that their daughter likes her name fine and seems to be quirky and creative.
Yeah I didn't quite follow the Seven logic either. He said it would be cool as a baby, as a kid, as a teenager, as an adult... but as an old lady? "Kind of cool!" I volunteered. Evidently he didn't agree.
I did remark upon how much more conservative the two boys' choices were than the girls' ones. Ian was especially surprising and kind of disappointing, given that it came from his super-feminist wife! She's in tune to all kind of sexism coded in music and scholarship. I guess maybe it does take a namenerd to see that something's a little off about such a solid, conservative boy name next to all of those fanciful girls names. But she probably had her reasons...
Anyway his response to my remarking was to shrug and almost shudder and say that he really hadn't wanted a boy anyway. We didn't talk about it...
I think Wednesday, aside from its self-conscious weirdness (which is to say phonetically, basically), is actually pretty versatile, and would probably oppress a girl who wanted to be normal no less than Ian would oppress a boy who wanted to be weird. But I do think they're fortunate in that their daughter likes her name fine and seems to be quirky and creative.
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I think the name is weird.
Also, music is the language of emotion. Intentionally trying to not communicate a feeling in one's composition is like trying to throw words at people without conveying a message.
This does not sound like my kind of person. From your description, he sounds really lame, and like handfuls of composers I have come across, one who tries to mask a lack of ability to communicate emotion with supposedly "deep" conceptual hooey-ha. The emperor is naked.
Also, music is the language of emotion. Intentionally trying to not communicate a feeling in one's composition is like trying to throw words at people without conveying a message.
This does not sound like my kind of person. From your description, he sounds really lame, and like handfuls of composers I have come across, one who tries to mask a lack of ability to communicate emotion with supposedly "deep" conceptual hooey-ha. The emperor is naked.
This message was edited 2/14/2012, 5:38 PM
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Ahh you'd have to meet him
Yeah I didn't quite buy the Addams day thing at first either, but I had a pretty extensive conversation with him about it, and it's legit.
Yeah I didn't quite buy the Addams day thing at first either, but I had a pretty extensive conversation with him about it, and it's legit.
This message was edited 2/14/2012, 8:02 PM
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Wednesday Lyra is super nice, I really like it and I am super psyched about a little goth composer kid.
But I agree that it is a pretty "expectation-full" name that seems to go against his ideals about feeling. That is really interesting. I actually find observing the psychological motivation behind people's name choices really fascinating. Like my friend who's expecting a boy, her husband is wildly paranoid that his son will be "girly" and get beaten up so he's decided he needs a "strong" name so that he can be the one doing the beating up because that's so much better. But don't worry, Aunty Chloe will buy him poetry books and let him wear makeup at her house.
But I mean names are really hard, is it even possible to make a name that honestly lets a person come to their own conclusions about it? What one person might think is timeless and versatile another might think is conservative and restrictive and blah blah blah.
Also I love and adore the name Stanley and all Steves are asses (in my experience) so I'm glad a cool guy like Stanley is named Stanley.
GOOD TALK
But I agree that it is a pretty "expectation-full" name that seems to go against his ideals about feeling. That is really interesting. I actually find observing the psychological motivation behind people's name choices really fascinating. Like my friend who's expecting a boy, her husband is wildly paranoid that his son will be "girly" and get beaten up so he's decided he needs a "strong" name so that he can be the one doing the beating up because that's so much better. But don't worry, Aunty Chloe will buy him poetry books and let him wear makeup at her house.
But I mean names are really hard, is it even possible to make a name that honestly lets a person come to their own conclusions about it? What one person might think is timeless and versatile another might think is conservative and restrictive and blah blah blah.
Also I love and adore the name Stanley and all Steves are asses (in my experience) so I'm glad a cool guy like Stanley is named Stanley.
GOOD TALK
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" all the Steves are asses" yeah that's my experience too.
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I like Wednesday. Not enough to use, but I'd be happy to meet a little girl by that name (especially nn Win, Winnie, Wendy, etc.) Lyra is a great middle name for it!
I love Lyra, Arwen, and Rain.
Seven is nms, and it's more of a boys name to me (I knew a horse once named Seven and he was male, so even if I can picture it on a human I picture it on a boy).
I have to agree with him on his own name! I really don't like Stanley at all. Stan is okay, but Steve is better :P
I love Lyra, Arwen, and Rain.
Seven is nms, and it's more of a boys name to me (I knew a horse once named Seven and he was male, so even if I can picture it on a human I picture it on a boy).
I have to agree with him on his own name! I really don't like Stanley at all. Stan is okay, but Steve is better :P
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For a classical composer and professor, he certainly stuck to cheesy pop culture when choosing names. I mean, really? The Addams Family was that important in his life? Please.
Stanley is definitely dated, the only ones I ever knew are around sixty or so. (One os them is Stan and the other is Stash, pronounced Stosh; his family is Polish.) Steve is certainly more current and timeless, but it seems to me his life isn't exactly terrible, and if it was, it would take a worse name than Stanley to make it so. The idea that his life would be so much better if he wasn't named Stanley is pretty teenagerish for a man with his education and experience.
Stanley is definitely dated, the only ones I ever knew are around sixty or so. (One os them is Stan and the other is Stash, pronounced Stosh; his family is Polish.) Steve is certainly more current and timeless, but it seems to me his life isn't exactly terrible, and if it was, it would take a worse name than Stanley to make it so. The idea that his life would be so much better if he wasn't named Stanley is pretty teenagerish for a man with his education and experience.
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I like it. I never watched the show, but I remember the movies very well because I watched them a million times. I think it's a cool name.
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