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Help[Facts] Recent increase in Christian/Cristian in Italy --Why?
I would like to write a newspaper column on names in Italy. Looking at recent figures for the top Italian names for babies, the most striking thing on the boys' side is that Christian (and its alternative spelling Cristian) have risen a great deal within the last decade.
I have not yet found any speculation as to why this name has recently become so popular in Italy. Some of the female names that have recently risen in use, such as Asia and Matilde, seem to be traceable to particular Italian celebrities. But I can't yet find information about any real or fictional man named Christian that would recently have become famous in Italy.
So, would any of the Europeans on this board know anything about this that could help me?
Thanks! :)
I have not yet found any speculation as to why this name has recently become so popular in Italy. Some of the female names that have recently risen in use, such as Asia and Matilde, seem to be traceable to particular Italian celebrities. But I can't yet find information about any real or fictional man named Christian that would recently have become famous in Italy.
So, would any of the Europeans on this board know anything about this that could help me?
Thanks! :)
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Replies
Pure speculation, but perhaps the religious population of Italy is shying away from saints` names or Biblical names, and this is their way of still expressing their beliefs. A family who 40 years ago might have named their son Giovanni or Paolo would settle on Christian today. I would suspect that is the reason for the rise in Western countries as well.
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But you don't need to be particularly religious to name your children Giovanni or Paolo, they just happen to be very common male names, very much like John and Paul in the English-speaking world. It's really not the kind of name that makes you think "oh, that kid's parents must be religious." Nor does Christian nowadays for the matter.
40 years ago or now, it's more likely that if someone gets named Giovanni or Paolo it's to honour a grandfather who had that name, rather than to express a religious belief.
And since Italians don't use surname-derived names, and made-up names or "exotic" names tend to be rare as well, the vast majority of names used by Italians, whether they're religious or not, are technically saints' names or Biblical names, by virtue of being traditional Western names.
I don't know any Christian's because the name isn't so common for my generation, but I know a couple of Cristiano's and I doubt any of them came from particularly religious families, nor are they religious themselves. I suspect their parents picked it just because they liked it.
There seems to be this myth of Italy as a country of ultra-devout Catholics, but it's really no longer the case, if it ever was. Religious practice is dwindling like in other places, and while the majority of the population is nominally Catholic in many cases they're not religious at all, really.
40 years ago or now, it's more likely that if someone gets named Giovanni or Paolo it's to honour a grandfather who had that name, rather than to express a religious belief.
And since Italians don't use surname-derived names, and made-up names or "exotic" names tend to be rare as well, the vast majority of names used by Italians, whether they're religious or not, are technically saints' names or Biblical names, by virtue of being traditional Western names.
I don't know any Christian's because the name isn't so common for my generation, but I know a couple of Cristiano's and I doubt any of them came from particularly religious families, nor are they religious themselves. I suspect their parents picked it just because they liked it.
There seems to be this myth of Italy as a country of ultra-devout Catholics, but it's really no longer the case, if it ever was. Religious practice is dwindling like in other places, and while the majority of the population is nominally Catholic in many cases they're not religious at all, really.
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Well I never said everyone with those names were named after apostles or saints, i just said that previous generations of parents seeking a name that shows their religion would chose a name such as that.
I also said that the trend could be started by religious parents, an then picked up by more secular ones for its aesthetic qualtities.
I know not all Italians are devout, but there are still some Christians there as everywhere.
I also said that the trend could be started by religious parents, an then picked up by more secular ones for its aesthetic qualtities.
I know not all Italians are devout, but there are still some Christians there as everywhere.
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If that was the case, the growing up form would be Cristiano and not the foreign Christian/Cristian.
Moreover, in the South European Catholic cultures (Portuguese, Italian, French, Spanish...), the way to express the devotion and Christianity through a name is not with the use of the equivalent to Christian as a name, but through names related to Catholic dogma, mysteries, festivities and advocations plus from some main Catholic characters. Even in the Middle Ages, when the equivalent forms of Christian appeared and were more common, they were not very usual.
Even if it is possible to found people named Christian-equivalents in South European Catholic countries, the use of those names were regarded as typically Protestant (including in this label, the Reformed churches and the Anglican communion) names until very recent times, just like some Old Testament names.
The current Italian trend is identical to the Spanish trend from the 80s (even more because both countries are of Latin culture, with very similar Romance languages and religiously very alike, in practices, devotion...), when Christian/Cristian grew up in popularity, absolutely not because of religious causes but because of the influence of American films and TV shows.
"Desde hace unas pocas décadas, y por importación foránea, este nombre ha arraigado en nuestro país con cierto éxito, en la mayoría de los casos escrito en la grafía extranjerizante Christian y acentuado en la primera sílaba." (Diccionario de nombres propios, by Roberto Faure, p.237)
I absolutelly agree with Fiammetta about the myth of some countries as ultra-devout Catholic countries, mainly Italy and Spain. Even ultra-devout Catholic people (as the members of Opus Dei, and in this specific case I have first-hand knowledge) pick the names mainly for aesthetic qualities, just like the rest of the population. The repertoire can vary, because every group has its own trends, but the motivation in the election is the same.
Moreover, in the South European Catholic cultures (Portuguese, Italian, French, Spanish...), the way to express the devotion and Christianity through a name is not with the use of the equivalent to Christian as a name, but through names related to Catholic dogma, mysteries, festivities and advocations plus from some main Catholic characters. Even in the Middle Ages, when the equivalent forms of Christian appeared and were more common, they were not very usual.
Even if it is possible to found people named Christian-equivalents in South European Catholic countries, the use of those names were regarded as typically Protestant (including in this label, the Reformed churches and the Anglican communion) names until very recent times, just like some Old Testament names.
The current Italian trend is identical to the Spanish trend from the 80s (even more because both countries are of Latin culture, with very similar Romance languages and religiously very alike, in practices, devotion...), when Christian/Cristian grew up in popularity, absolutely not because of religious causes but because of the influence of American films and TV shows.
"Desde hace unas pocas décadas, y por importación foránea, este nombre ha arraigado en nuestro país con cierto éxito, en la mayoría de los casos escrito en la grafía extranjerizante Christian y acentuado en la primera sílaba." (Diccionario de nombres propios, by Roberto Faure, p.237)
I absolutelly agree with Fiammetta about the myth of some countries as ultra-devout Catholic countries, mainly Italy and Spain. Even ultra-devout Catholic people (as the members of Opus Dei, and in this specific case I have first-hand knowledge) pick the names mainly for aesthetic qualities, just like the rest of the population. The repertoire can vary, because every group has its own trends, but the motivation in the election is the same.
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According to my contact...
the fact that, in 2005, the soccer Francesco Totti chose the name Cristian for his son can explain the growing popularity of C(h)ristian: in 2004, C(h)ristian was not in the top 30, but in 2006, both forms were (Christian #21 and Cristian #25).
She also agrees with Fiammetta about Matilde: "(...) Matilde Brandi does hardly have the kind of popularity for people to name there children after her (...)".
the fact that, in 2005, the soccer Francesco Totti chose the name Cristian for his son can explain the growing popularity of C(h)ristian: in 2004, C(h)ristian was not in the top 30, but in 2006, both forms were (Christian #21 and Cristian #25).
She also agrees with Fiammetta about Matilde: "(...) Matilde Brandi does hardly have the kind of popularity for people to name there children after her (...)".
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Thank you for the information about Cristian Totti.
I am sure that people in Italy know more about how famous Ms. Brandi's is than I do.
But remember that a celebrity doesn't have to have popularity in the sense of people liking them for there to be an effect on what people name their children. A lot of publicity is enough, even if it would seem to be bad publicity.
Many people who are inspired to give a name to their children because of seeing a name in the media aren't naming their kids "after" the celebrities in the sense of honoring them. They just have discovered a name that they like through the publicity given the celebrity.
I am sure that people in Italy know more about how famous Ms. Brandi's is than I do.
But remember that a celebrity doesn't have to have popularity in the sense of people liking them for there to be an effect on what people name their children. A lot of publicity is enough, even if it would seem to be bad publicity.
Many people who are inspired to give a name to their children because of seeing a name in the media aren't naming their kids "after" the celebrities in the sense of honoring them. They just have discovered a name that they like through the publicity given the celebrity.
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I see your point...
and in a lot of cases that is absolutely true, the celebrities act as a loudspeaker, even if they are not starting the trend. But I noticed that in the Romance Europe (the Europe that I know for names: Iberian Peninsula, France, Italy) this situation seems less common than in the English speaking world and in a lot of cases, the only explanation for the rise of a name is an internal process: the name sounds like another popular name, has the same style...
Honestly, in the case of Matilde I don't know, but if two Italian people (who are into names) think that Matilde Brandi is not an explanation for the rise of the name, probably the explanation has to be found in other places. For example, the book Matilda (1988), by Roald Dahl, was translated into Italian as Matilde and the kids from the 80s are now having children. This concurring with the trend of old fashioned names (this trend recovered Mathilde since 1980s in France).
and in a lot of cases that is absolutely true, the celebrities act as a loudspeaker, even if they are not starting the trend. But I noticed that in the Romance Europe (the Europe that I know for names: Iberian Peninsula, France, Italy) this situation seems less common than in the English speaking world and in a lot of cases, the only explanation for the rise of a name is an internal process: the name sounds like another popular name, has the same style...
Honestly, in the case of Matilde I don't know, but if two Italian people (who are into names) think that Matilde Brandi is not an explanation for the rise of the name, probably the explanation has to be found in other places. For example, the book Matilda (1988), by Roald Dahl, was translated into Italian as Matilde and the kids from the 80s are now having children. This concurring with the trend of old fashioned names (this trend recovered Mathilde since 1980s in France).
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Yes, I agree with your second paragraph. I think it's basically an old-fashioned name that's coming back. Even supposing Matilde Brandi played a part in its increased popularity, it's not comparable to Asia, which was virtually unknown as a person's name before director Dario Argento used it for his daughter, who became a well-known actress in her own right.
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You are right
with the cases of Matilde and Asia being not comparable.
About Asia, my contact sent me more information this morning: "Asia Argento is actually Aria. The name Asia was refused by the registry office in 1975 when she was born.
Only in 2001-2 the naming laws no longer proibited geografical names. in this case it's likely people got the idea from the Argento family."
with the cases of Matilde and Asia being not comparable.
About Asia, my contact sent me more information this morning: "Asia Argento is actually Aria. The name Asia was refused by the registry office in 1975 when she was born.
Only in 2001-2 the naming laws no longer proibited geografical names. in this case it's likely people got the idea from the Argento family."
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Well, the name seems to have become more popular recently, but I think it started being used relatively frequently at least since the 1980s. And there is at least one Italian celebrity with this name, the actor and director Christian de Sica (son of Vittorio de Sica) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_De_Sica though he has been famous for a while.
There also seems to be a growing trend of American-derived names like Jennifer, Jessica, Samuel, which were previously not used at all, so Christian could be seen as part of that as well.
Who's the celebrity Matilde, btw? Asia is presumably Asia Argento. But unlike Asia Matilde has a long history of use, even though it is or was relatively uncommon.
There also seems to be a growing trend of American-derived names like Jennifer, Jessica, Samuel, which were previously not used at all, so Christian could be seen as part of that as well.
Who's the celebrity Matilde, btw? Asia is presumably Asia Argento. But unlike Asia Matilde has a long history of use, even though it is or was relatively uncommon.
This message was edited 5/27/2010, 5:52 AM
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I was thinking the rise in Matilde might be partially from Matilde Brandi, but you would know better whether or not that makes any sense.
I note that Ms. Brandi has a daughter named Aurora, which is another name which has increased in use in Italy lately.
http://warping.to/ambra/matildebrandi/
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matilde_Brandi
I note that Ms. Brandi has a daughter named Aurora, which is another name which has increased in use in Italy lately.
http://warping.to/ambra/matildebrandi/
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matilde_Brandi
This message was edited 5/27/2010, 6:51 AM
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Thanks. Admittedly I don't watch the sort of programmes where Ms Brandi would feature or pay a huge attention to this kind of celebrities, but she doesn't really strike me as a household name, so I wonder how much of the Matilde's rise in popularity can be attributed to her.
Btw, another question: are there reliable Italian popularity name lists year by year somewhere online? I've never managed to find much on google
Btw, another question: are there reliable Italian popularity name lists year by year somewhere online? I've never managed to find much on google
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So far I have only found lists for 2004 and 2008 from ISTAT (The Italian National Institute of Statistics), but there may be others out there some where.
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Pure guesswork I'm afraid: but Italy is a footballing country of note, and Cristiano Ronaldo might be Portuguese and based in Spain, but he's a massively charismatic player so he could easily be a factor.
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I thought of Cristiano Ronaldo but I don't think him is the reason for the rising of Cristian/Christian in Italy. If yes, the rising form would be Cristiano (which is also the Italian form of the name) and not the foreign C(h)ristian.
I sent a message to a person living in Italy and who is interested in names asking about the question.
I sent a message to a person living in Italy and who is interested in names asking about the question.
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Yes Cristiano Ronaldo is a Portuguese but not based in Spain he just plays with Real Madrid but Last season he Was playing with Manchester United in England.but he's a portuguese he's From Porto.Also the Legend of football RONALDO the Brazilian.
but the name is based in Spain.
but the name is based in Spain.
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